355: Style, Confidence, and Professional Presence with Caden Broussard and Jinny Chen from Cello Closet

What you wear communicates something before you ever say a word.

For mid-career professionals, personal style is not simply about following trends or buying expensive clothes. It can influence how confidently you walk into a job interview, lead an important meeting, pursue a promotion, return to the office, or begin a career transition.

In this episode of The Mid-Career GPS Podcast, I sit down with Caden Broussard and Jinny Chen, co-founders of Cello, to explore how professional style affects confidence, credibility, executive presence, and career advancement.

Caden and Jinny share how they made their own mid-career pivots from finance and technology into entrepreneurship. They also explain why they created Cello after recognizing that too many accomplished professionals feel uncomfortable or out of place during the moments when they most need to feel prepared and confident.

We discuss what effective professional styling actually looks like. Instead of beginning with trends or rigid fashion rules, the process starts with your career goals, lifestyle, body, budget, industry, and the clothing you already own.

You will learn how to make smarter wardrobe decisions for high-stakes career situations, including job interviews, promotions, industry changes, networking events, and the return to an in-person workplace.

We also examine why the traditional advice to “overdress to be safe” may no longer work in every industry. Caden and Jinny explain how researching an organization’s culture and using your professional network can help you choose interview attire that feels polished, appropriate, and authentic.

We also address the growing role of artificial intelligence in personal styling. While AI can generate outfit recommendations, high-stakes career situations often require judgment, context, and honest human feedback. A generic outfit list cannot always tell you whether something fits properly, reflects your personality, or supports the professional image you want to create.

If you are job searching, preparing for a promotion, changing industries, or trying to rebuild your professional wardrobe without overspending, this conversation will help you approach personal style with greater clarity and confidence.

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

• How Caden and Jinny navigated their own mid-career changes from corporate careers into entrepreneurship

• Why feeling out of place can become the inspiration for creating something valuable

• How Cello combines artificial intelligence with guidance from professional stylists

• How clothing can affect confidence, leadership presence, and professional credibility

• What to consider when dressing for a job interview in different industries

• Why overdressing can sometimes work against you during the hiring process

• How to use your professional network to understand an organization’s workplace culture

• Why comfort, fit, and authenticity matter more than blindly following style trends

• How to build a professional wardrobe by making better use of the clothes you already own

• Why honest human feedback remains essential when the career stakes are high

Your professional wardrobe does not need to be expensive or complicated. It needs to help you feel comfortable, credible, and prepared to show up confidently when opportunity arrives.

Listen to this episode and learn how to align your personal style with the career, leadership presence, and professional reputation you want to build.

Visit their website.

Connect with Caden Broussard on LinkedIn.

Connect with Jinny Chen on LinkedIn.

Email them at hello@cellocloset.com

Transcript

Welcome And Why Clothes Matter

John Neral 0:02

Hello, my friends, and welcome to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. I'm your host, John Narrell. This is the show for mid-career professionals who feel stuck, undervalued, or unsure what's next, and know that doing more isn't the answer. Here we focus on how you show up. That means how you make clearer decisions, build influence, and take control of your career. Let's get started. On this podcast, I talk so much about how we show up matters, but I've never talked to you about what you wear and why that matters. And admittedly, I'm not the person to have that conversation. And that's where today's guests come in, and they're here to help you. And recently, they helped me. So today's guests are Caden Broussard and Jinny Chen. They are the co-founders of Cello, a styling service that uses AI and technology to pair professionals with clothing stylists to help them show up as their most confident selves. And they recently helped me get ready for my delivering the closing keynote at this year's Next Up's Rising Stars conference. And when they talk about being confident in what you wear and something that fits your body, honestly, I will tell you, I have never felt more comfortable or confident taking the stage with what I was wearing than I did just a couple weeks ago. So here's why Caden and Jinny are amazing. Previously, they both worked in finance and technology at companies like LinkedIn and Capital One. And they pivoted their careers to start cello because they believe everyone deserves to feel confident in their clothes. And technology can make a service like professional styling accessible to all. We cover so many things in this episode. It is a deep but yet lighthearted conversation about what we wear, why we wear it, and how we can show up more confidently with what we're wearing. So I'm going to stop. Let's just get right to the conversation. It is my pleasure to introduce you to Caden Broussard and Jinny Chen. Caden and Jinny, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you both here today.

Speaker 1 2:32

Thanks, John. We're excited to be

Mid-Career Pivots That Sparked Cello

Speaker 1 2:34

here.

John Neral 2:34

I love how we connected. So we connected simply based on the power of LinkedIn and a message. And then it turned into a conversation. And I've enjoyed getting to know you both and hearing a little bit of your backstory and how you were able to create cello. But before we get there, um, Caden, let's start with you. What was your mid-career moment?

Speaker 1 2:56

Yeah, so one very excited to be here, John. Um, so I had been working in kind of a mix of finance, consulting since I graduated from college and was sort of like on the kind of corporate treadmill. Um, and I realized maybe, you know, almost a decade into my career that I wasn't totally satisfied. And so I actually made kind of the decision to go back to grad school a little bit later than most people do. But it was the first time I'd had kind of space to actually reflect on what I wanted out of my career, what, you know, made me feel energized and inspired. And taking that time away actually made me realize that really what I'm passionate about is making people feel, you know, confident. Um, and one thing that gives me a lot of energy is working with amazing people, which is how I met Jinny in grad school. But my career moment was going back to school a little bit later than maybe most people do, but actually having the space to reflect on what I wanted and then pivoting my career from there.

John Neral 3:50

So, Jinny, what was it for you?

Speaker 3:53

Um, very similar to Kaden. And thanks, John, for having us on this podcast. But uh very similar also on the corporate treadmill. I think when I started, like I grew up first gen immigrant family, low income. So I've always chased stability in my life. And so for the first years of my career, it's always been like I worked in like big tech, big for consulting, a lot of like stable jobs. And then after a few years, I was like, actually, I'm feeling a little stable, like financially secure. And I took a look at like, okay, what are the different risks that I could take? Um, so when I met Caden in business school, we uh I I think I was like very inspired. I took a look at the things that I love, which was like coaching, helping build community, helping people feel confident. And so took a leap of faith, and that was kind of my mid-career pivot.

John Neral 4:45

Put one piece of the puzzle together for me. So if I heard you both correctly, you met each other in grad school. So when did you decide that starting a business and being entrepreneurs was something you both wanted to do?

Roommates To Co-Founders

Speaker 1 5:01

Yeah. So actually, funnily enough, I think for this idea in particular, um, Jinny and I were roommates the first part of grad school. And actually, one of the first things we bonded over was feeling like really out of place. You know, we'd both kind of moved to California. We were both like a couple years older than most students. Um, we'd been in these like corporate careers for a long time. And then all of a sudden we were in grad school in California and we were like, we feel totally out of place. And so I think immediately we bonded over that and we were like, you know, people shouldn't shouldn't feel like that, especially in moments where they should be really excited about the next phase of their career. Um, and so we started talking about it. And I think we just got really energized by the idea and we really kind of loved each other. And then from there, we're like, okay, if I'm gonna take the leap with someone, it would be with Jinny. Um, and I'm happy about that like every day. So I think it was just kind of the perfect storm of like the right idea, the right person. And then we were both in a place where we were kind of ready to take a risk. Um, so that's how we kind of came to entrepreneurship and to our company cello in particular.

John Neral 6:01

Nice. Jinny, there's no question that starting a company in 2020s is at for some would think it's an absolutely crazy idea, right? With everything going on in the world and the economy and things like that. But, you know, entrepreneurship has risk and business decisions have risk as well. What would you say is the magic between you and Caden in terms of how you handle those kinds of conversations and make those business decisions?

Speaker 6:27

Well, I love working with Caden. I think it's with any risk, it's about for us, it's like de-risking. Like what is the biggest risk today? And then what is the information that I can figure out and then de-risk it? And so Caden has a ton of experience working from like in retail and in a lot of um and building out new products. And so she brings a whole host of the expertise. And so with entrepreneurs, I feel like it's a lot less of a risk now working with like a great thought partner.

John Neral 6:58

I love that whole idea of de-risk. I love how you phrased that and categorized it.

Styling For Promotions And New Jobs

John Neral 7:04

So let's talk a little bit about the mid-career professional who's going through some kind of big life transition, right? They're starting a new job or they're interviewing for a new job. Talk to us a little bit about how Cello helps that mid-career professional dress for more impact and be more confident in those kind of life transitions.

unknown 7:27

Okay.

John Neral 7:28

Caden, let's start with you.

Speaker 1 7:29

Yeah, sure. So a little bit about us. Um essentially, what we do is we connect professionals with amazing personal stylists who traditionally have only been accessible to, you know, celebrities and the wealthy. Um, and we kind of make them accessible for everyone. And we do it by using a mix of actual stylists and technology. And so what we realized is that many of our customers were not like your fashion lovers. Actually, they were people who were going through really exciting career transitions. So it was people who'd just gotten promoted, just gotten a new job, broken into a new industry. And what we realized is that as you're making that transition, you know, it's not just about your resume and expertise and all that. Obviously, that is incredibly important. It's also about showing up and kind of looking the part. So I remembered when I first kind of interviewed to go into consulting, I got rejected from the first few firms I interviewed for. And I remember still one of the pieces of feedback I'd gotten was that I didn't show up as very polished. And I think that's much more commentary on, you know, appearance and, you know, how you show up than it is, you know, knowledge and things like that. So what we wanted to do was make sure everyone has access to expertise and resources that don't just make them feel, you know, good and attractive, but also make them feel like they're showing up in the way they would want for, you know, a new job, a promotion, a different industry. Um, I think especially post-COVID, a lot of that knowledge is not just sitting there in our brains. It's actually uh, you know, sitting with experts who can kind of give us that uh, you know, go-ahead and approval on what we wear.

John Neral 9:04

So, Jinny, let's um let me acknowledge for a moment that I love my comfy pants. I think working from home definitely sometimes has its advantages, right? Especially when we're on Zoom calls and things like that. What has been some of the biggest challenges you've seen, especially for people who are returning to the office or they're interviewing for jobs where the mandate is they need to be in the office five days a week. What are some of the things that they're most worried about when it comes for dressing for the job?

Speaker 9:37

So I think you kind of touched on this, John. Like you love your comfortable pants. It's like things that fit well to you and like what you care about, translating that back into work and in the office. And so what we've seen a lot with like dressing and how you wear is less it is about how you look, but it's more important, like how you feel. Like I feel comfortable, I feel great. And so what we realize is like every time you're in a new environment, for a lot of people, it's like for like I transitioned from like working in the finance world to tech. That that's a uniform change or like an outfit change. It's a little different. And so when I first showed up in tech, I I like felt out of place because I I personally internally felt like I looked out of place.

unknown 10:20

Okay.

Speaker 10:21

Um, so it's more about the feeling. And so when working with our clients, it's a lot of like, what are you looking for? Getting a lot of their goals and aspirations captured. A lot more than like, okay, like how do we then how do we address you? So it's like getting very specific and personal has been one of our top priorities of what we're focused on.

John Neral 10:42

So I had an opportunity to use your service recently. Um, just a couple of weeks ago, I was in Dallas uh delivering a closing keynote for a conference, and I had graciously took you up on your offer to help help get me some styling suggestions for this event. And one of the things that I really appreciated working with you both was that you gave me options, and those options were very flexible, right? It was this kind of shirt or this kind of pants or these kind of shoes that, and you gave me some options in terms of where I could buy that were also budget friendly. Is that the typical experience? I mean, I'm guessing it is, but I mean, is that kind of the typical experience that a customer who would engage with you at Cello, that's what they would experience?

Speaker 1 11:32

Yeah, it is. And one, I'm glad that that worked out and excited to see the final outfit. Um, but yes, I think to Jenny's point, what we realized is amazing styling isn't so much about let me get you what's on trend or let me make you spend a ton of money. It's more about let me understand all of your goals and your lifestyle and your body type and what you feel comfortable spending. And then we can translate that into some options for you. So your experience was very typical. We're with a typical customer, they'll hop on like a 20-minute, 30-minute call with someone on our team and we'll get very detailed about your goals and your body. We'll document everything you already have because we don't want you to buy things just to buy things. Like we want to work with what you already have. And then we take all of that, hand it over to a stylist who is the one who will actually come back with options. Um, and and to your point, like we feel very strongly about like giving people a range of options when it comes to comfort and and budget, because you know, feeling good, that that shouldn't be something that you have to spend thousands of dollars on if you don't want to. Um, and so that kind of giving the options and really fitting to your budget and lifestyle is is quite typical, and I think is really key to great styling.

Interview Outfits By Industry

John Neral 12:42

When you talk about styling, especially for people who are interviewing for a job and they're in person for the interview. So we're not, we're not stuck in the Zoom box or the Microsoft Team screen, and we're actually going and we're meeting people in the office. Um what are some of the rules that you're seeing for interview preparation and styling that may be very different now than what they were, even say five or 10 years ago, where for a lot of people listening this show, that may have been the last time they interviewed for a job.

Speaker 13:18

Previously, it's a lot more, a lot of rules of like you must wear XYZ, like a blazer or a top. I think we're seeing a lot more individual um expression come through. And so that's kind of exciting. Like you can, there's a lot less like strict, rigid rules, but it's all dependent on the industry still. Um, some industry it's adopting a lot more uh quicker, and then you have some more traditional industries where like it is very rules-based. Um so we're seeing a little more expression come through, which is kind of exciting. And so when we do styling, we do the same with like how can we stay within the bounds of your industry and your job? We always look at like what you do day to day, what is your lifestyle, and also what are the rules that we have to operate within. And then we bring in some of your personality.

John Neral 14:04

Okay. Does this does the old rule of it's better to overdress for the interview than underdress still apply?

Speaker 1 14:13

I think in general, though, to Jenny's point, it is so industry specific. So, for example, we're based in San Francisco. So the dominant predominant industry is tech. Right. Um, and it's been interesting because I think actually what you see in tech in particular is you do want to be careful about overdressing too much, where in general the vibe is more like still professional, but is more casual. Um, so I think that a good rule of thumb generally is overdressing, though to Jenny's point, like it can be so industry specific, which is why it can be helpful to show a couple of options, you know, take selfie, send it to your stylist, and get some feedback before you go into the interview, just so you feel going in like, yes, I'm hitting the right note. Um, because I think walking in with that confidence makes a big difference, like as you're going through that interview process, which can be, you know, quite stressful.

John Neral 15:04

Caden, for the clients whom you help, when they're interviewing at a particular company there's always a big conversation around what's that organizational culture like? What am I going to wear on a day-to-day basis? What am I going to wear for the interview? Do you encourage your clients to say, try to network or reach out or get an idea what the attire might be for the job interview? Or is it, is it kind of like just a stable rule of thumb, like this is a solid interview outfit and this is what you can wear?

Speaker 1 15:42

That's a great question. You know, I think that it's helpful to do some of the networking beforehand. Obviously, that's not always possible, but I think that on our end, we're able to usually provide a much wider range of options. If someone already kind of knows, I know a few people who work at this company, kind of here's what I see they're wearing day to day or what I've heard. That gives you kind of a broad wider range to work from. That being said, I think that even if you don't have that, there are some kind of like staple rules of thumb that we usually ask, like tell people to follow that'll kind of, you know, make sure people don't, you know, stick out in a bad way. I think it's interesting. Like a lot of the asks we get, um, particularly for men, actually, are less about like, I want to look amazing and really good. And it's more like, I just want to make sure I'm not violating any of like the rules and that I don't stick out in a way I don't want to. So I think that is actually very doable with a stylist, even if you haven't networked deep into the organization. Um, though I think the networking can be helpful for kind of like the next level of like, okay, now where can I really bring in a little more of my self-expression even early on?

John Neral 16:48

I remember before I opened my coaching practice full-time, I had worked for an educational nonprofit in Georgetown here in Washington, D.C. And a former colleague of mine had gone and interviewed at the company. And she said to me, John, I think it'd be a great fit. You need to go interview for this job. Do not wear a tie. And I was like, but I have to wear a tie. She's like, Don't wear a tie. She goes, You'll actually tick them off. Don't wear a tie. And I remember sitting in the car in the parking garage with the tie in my hand, going, Do I wear it? Do I not wear it? And I shoved it in my bag, thinking, like, oh my gosh, if I blow this, at least I can like pull the tie out or something like that. The only time I ever wore a tie at that company was when we had a client meeting. And even that it was sometimes we could go business casual type thing. But it's those kind of rules that that interviews are stressful enough. So if we don't know how to play, we feel like we're walking on eggshells in that regard. And so I love how you're giving your clients options, but you're also giving them guidance within their industry to help them be more confident and show up in that way.

Speaker 1 17:59

Yeah, I think that's right. And it's so interesting you say that. I used to be a consultant and we would actually get very specific um dress code advice depending on who our client was, where there were certain client sites where if you actually dressed too formally, like you would immediately can't immediately alienate people for like obviously sticking out. And then there was the opposite was true too. Um, and so I just think to your point, actually, all of that carries so much more weight than I think we we think. Um, and you don't know what to do unless you have someone who can kind of tell you, well, here's what I'm seeing, kind of in this industry or in this kind of workplace.

AI Versus Human Style Judgment

John Neral 18:33

So this next question I have is is one that I believe is probably lingering in the back of a listener's mind. And I think it's important we call this out for them. And and Jinny, I'm gonna start with you first and then Caden. I'd love for you to weigh in on this. Um you have created an AI native company that has certainly been able to leverage AI to make decisions and choices quicker and easier and everything. I'm willing to bet there's someone listening to this episode and they're going, I could just write a prompt in Chat GPT or put it in Claude, and it's gonna pop out for me an outfit and where to buy and the budget. And I don't need to use their services because trust me, I hear it in the coaching end as well, right? Like I hear that as well because people think AI can do anything and everything. And so when you're interacting with people, when you're meeting people, you're telling them about your services. What is that particular edge or angle that helps you stand out that this is a service that somebody absolutely needs to and should be taking advantage of to help them show up more confidently at work?

Speaker 19:54

Oh, I love that question. Because I am also guilty of trying to use AI to ask it questions. And I've all asked three AIs and give me sometimes the same answer, sometimes wrong. And I I think the importance of like a stylus is that judgment layer. Like you're judging the output of AI if like if I believe in that. And so I can go on about like what are stylists too. Like they'll actually go into the store that they recommend and they'll like feel and touch the fabric to see if it's good before they make the recommendation to our customer. And like source all that, there's like a ton of work that they do in the back end. They're fashionally trained, like they're they know fabrics, construction, they all graduate from like top school. So I can go on about like their credentials, but I think for me personally, as a user who's tried both, I think for low-stakes things, I love use like AI gives me a quick answer. It's a lot faster. For high stakes things, like an interview or things where I'm like, I'm stepping into a room for the first time, I don't know how I feel. Like having that human validation for us is what we're more all about. It's like we can give you carefully constructed outfits well thought out for you, and having that like final layer of like, this looks good or this doesn't look good. And so I think very similar for coaching. Like I've done, I use AI almost like a therapy coach sometimes, but I still need to talk to like an actual coach or my friends or like human for um, like what do you actually think? Like, what is your perspective?

John Neral 21:20

I appreciate that. Yeah, thank you for that. Caitlin, how about for you? How would you answer that?

Speaker 1 21:25

Yeah, I think quite similar. And it's funny because Jinny and I sometimes joke about this, but I think it is true where, you know, when Jinny and I have like gone shopping together because we spend almost all of our time together. I think something I value about Jinny is if I try something on, like she will give me the truth, whether or not it's like, oh, that looks great, or you know what, for what you're going for, that's not that's not gonna work. And I think what we found is actually when it comes to style, people appreciate tough love. And so, you know, our stylists like are quite honest with people about like, hey, you know, for what you're going for, this would work, this really wouldn't work. And I actually think that is important when it comes to fashion. It's not just about like validating you and saying everything looks amazing, which I think at least right now AI has a tendency to do. Um, I think it's more about trusting like this person is going to give me the honest feedback I need so that like when I walk into a room, I feel confident like they were telling the truth. This looks great, like I'm showing up in the way I want. And I think that is a critical piece. I'm assuming in coaching too, of like, oh yeah. Yeah, you need someone who can do the, oh, the ballot at you and it looks great, but also give you the honest truth of like, hey, you know, maybe not this, but let's try that. Um, which I think a human, at least in this moment, is better at doing right now than AI.

John Neral 22:39

Yeah. And I think what you're talking about here is that we we get to we get to provide different angles for consideration, right? You know, different perspectives on things to ultimately let the client make their best decision, but that we we put things out. Um, I used to have a boss that would say we would just put things out on front street, right? You put things out on front street to be like, okay, we're gonna take a look at this and then decide what's going to be the best move, right? And so when people are looking at their closets and they're looking at an upcoming meeting or a job interview, or they're getting in front of a big client and they they want that outfit to really make them pop and make them feel comfortable.

Looking Polished On A Budget

John Neral 23:26

We have to talk about finances, right? So we know in this economy right now, groceries are higher, gas is higher, electric bills are higher and everything. I mean, people are absolutely feeling the squeeze. And so then someone might be listening and going, okay, this is all great and everything, but I don't necessarily have $500, $750, $1,000 to invest in a new outfit. When it comes to being budget-friendly and budget conscious, how do you help your clients in that realm?

Speaker 23:57

We actually have a bunch of clients who come in and they they're like, I only want outfits with my existing closet. Like, I don't want to do any shopping. And so our students will go in and carry outfits of what they already have. And so we have a number of those. Um that said, I feel like there's in retail, there's a lot of pushing you to buy more, like every ad. Every time you do a like a subscription box or anything, it's like buy this, buy this, buy this. Um, and our model is like no one's really in your corner of like, hey, like what if we how do you maximize what you already have? And if you were to make an addition, like how's it thoughtful? And so the reason we went about this is like actually, like for people like Kate and I, we also, when we were students, didn't have money to explore down the huge budget of clothing. And so I really want to maximize what we have. If we were to make something, make a purchase, it's thoughtful. It goes with our existing wardrobe and it's like made as an investment. Nice.

John Neral 24:56

I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, Caden, anything to add to that?

Speaker 1 25:00

No, just I think that's right. I think we try to start, like Jenny said, with what you have as a base. And and I mean, I don't know about you, but I I think I wear maybe 25, 30% of what's in my closet. So there's a lot in there that's like I could be getting more out of, but sometimes you need another eye to look at it. Um, and then I think like the experience you were saying, John, like for people who do want to do shopping, like we definitely take budget into account and you know, give a range so people are, you know, shopping in a place where they feel if they feel comfortable. Yeah.

John Neral 25:29

Well, and that was one of the ways you two helped me and your company helped me as well, which was that there were some things in my closet that I was able to pull from that they, for example, there was a pair of pants. I was like, okay, same color, this will go well. But um, to go with a different colored shirt, and we did end up going with a blazer, a nice casual blazer as well. Um, those were things I didn't necessarily have. So that that made the shopping a whole lot easier in that regard. Um, before we start wrapping up, for each of you, Caden, I'll start with you. What's a big no-no

Style No-Nos And Final Takeaways

John Neral 26:00

when it comes to styling for your clients?

Speaker 1 26:04

You know, I think the biggest one is really around comfort. Like I think that if something doesn't feel comfortable, people will not wear it. Even if it like, you know, is on trend, like looks good, whatever. I think that that's like the biggest one where when you recommend something that's like, oh, this actually feels really tight in the thighs, like that's gonna sit unworn, even if it looks great, even if it's from a great brand. So I think that one of the biggest things that we try to work with is like not just does this look good, does this look polished, but when you put it on your body, is it going to feel comfortable comfortable? Because if it doesn't, like that's gonna sit unworn and it's gonna be kind of a waste.

John Neral 26:38

Sure. Nice. Yeah, thank you for that. Jenny, how about for you? What's a big no-no?

Speaker 26:43

Oh man, that was mine. And so I gotta think of a second. Um there's comfort, and I think there's also like a lot of um, a lot of customers come in and say, like, oh, like I don't want to wear these things because I'm worried it's not trendy, or like I'm worried that like it's outdated. And I think a no-no is okay, a not no-no in that like it's okay. Um I think it's okay to to wear those. And our stylists are quite good at like incorporating that back into your wardrobe and not slightly. Maybe if you want a modern look onto it, it's like pairing it with something more modern, like you can still wear that. And then so not a no-no, but a more misconception that like you can't wear certain things anymore because it's outdated.

John Neral 27:27

Sure. No, really, really, really good. Thank you for that. Um, we're gonna start wrapping up here. Thank you both so much for this conversation. I know people are listening and they're they're getting a lot out of this, but if you each could give a piece of advice to someone to help them build their mid-career GPS, either from the perspective of your own career or something from your business. Jenny, let me start with you. What advice would you give them?

Speaker 27:52

Oh, I think I would go back to like it's okay to take risk. And it's like there is a systematic way you could de-risk things. And so if it's like, oh, like I don't know if I should take this jump, it's you can talk to people getting their advice and like getting more information. And that's what de-risking is. And so more uh more so like encouragement of like you can go after like the passion route, not every um things like that.

John Neral 28:20

Yeah, yeah, very good. Thank you. Caden, how about for you?

Speaker 1 28:23

Yeah, I I think mine has been like as I've gone through my own kind of big career transition in the last five years, um, is I guess don't underestimate the power of your network. Um, I think that like at every moment in my career, like when I was trying to decide if I wanted to go back to school, once I was in school and I was trying to decide if I wanted to take the lead to entrepreneurship and now building this business with Jenny, like there's so many moments where I've tapped on my network to, you know, solve a problem, make a hire, things like that. Um, and so I would say just don't underestimate the power of your network. There's so much like richness there when it comes to expertise and support and connections. And I think, you know, without that, this would have been a much, much, much, much harder, harder journey.

John Neral 29:03

Nice. Well, again, thank you both for such a wonderful conversation. I want to turn the mic over to you both right now to share all the great places where people can connect with you, find you, learn more about you and what you do. Caden, where's the best place for everyone to connect with you?

Speaker 1 29:20

Yeah. Um, so if anyone's interested in being styled, we're at cello, like the instrument, C-E-L-L-O closet.com. Um, you can also send us an email at hello at cellocloset.com. Um, you know, we love talking to people. We love styling people. Um, and would it be excited to connect with people in either of those places?

John Neral 29:39

Great. I will make sure those links are in the show note. That's gotta be the best email address I've heard in a while, though. So hello at celloclosets.com. I think that's that's great. Thank you both for what you do. Thank you so much for everything. It has been an absolute pleasure having you both on the Mid Career GPS podcast.

Speaker 1 29:58

Thanks, John. This was so fun.

John Neral 29:59

It was fun. Thank you. All right, my friends. Here's the thing. There's one big takeaway I have from my conversation with Caden and Jenny, and it's this you need people in your corner. Whether it's your network, it's people whom you you know from graduate school, it's that close colleague or critical friend that's gonna be that truth teller for you and be brutally honest with you. You need people in your corner. And sometimes when it comes to how we style ourselves or how we dress ourselves, we get comfortable. We get comfortable with the things that are in our closet and how we look and how we feel. And right now in this job market, you and I both know that competition is tougher than ever. And so, what better way to feel more confident and confident in terms of how you show up? To just have something you feel comfortable and confident walking into the room with and being ready to tell your story when you interview to show up from that place of value and service. So I appreciate Caden and Jenny so much. I hope you will check out their website. Don't forget to check the show notes. And as always, my friends, remember this you will build your mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time. And how you show up matters. Make it a great rest of your day. If you enjoyed this episode, don't keep it to yourself. Kindly share it with someone who needs it. And if you're tired of feeling stuck, overlooked, or underutilized in your career, go to my website, johnneral.com to get started. There you'll find free resources, ways to work with me, and details about the Show Up Leadership Lab, my signature membership for mid-career professionals who want to lead better, get noticed, and elevate their career. All the links are in the show notes. You can grab what you need right there. Feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. And if you're getting value from the show, take 30 seconds to leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Remember, how you show up matters, and I'll see you next time.