345: Mid-Career Pivot Without Regret: How to Let Go of Sunk Costs and Build a Career You Love with Lisa Kaplin

If you are a mid-career professional who feels stuck, burned out, or questioning whether your career still fits, this episode will help you rethink what forward progress actually looks like. I sit down with executive leadership coach and psychologist Lisa Kaplin to explore what it takes to walk away from a path you invested years of time, money, and identity into and still trust yourself to build something better.

We talk about the reality many professionals face in their late 30s, 40s, and 50s. You did everything right. You earned the degree, built the resume, and climbed the ladder. Yet something feels off. This is not failure. It is often the beginning of real career clarity.

Lisa shares her own mid-career pivot from clinical psychology to coaching, including the emotional and financial weight of leaving behind advanced degrees and managing student debt. We unpack how to move beyond sunk cost thinking so you can make decisions based on where you want to go, not where you have already been.

If you are navigating a difficult job market, dealing with a challenging manager, or feeling like you are just trying to get through each day until retirement, this conversation will challenge how you think about your next move. You will learn how to shift from stress-based decision-making to a more grounded and intentional approach that helps you lead and SHOW UP more effectively.

This episode is designed for mid-career professionals who want more clarity, more impact, and a career that actually aligns with who they are today.

What You Will Learn in This Episode

•  How to recognize when your career no longer fits and what to do next 
•  Why ignoring sunk costs is a strategic decision, not just a mindset shift 
•  The difference between therapy and coaching and how each supports growth 
•  Why “have to” thinking keeps you stuck and how to reframe it into choice 
•  How to make career decisions from a place of clarity rather than stress 
•  Practical ways to create forward momentum even in a difficult job market 
•  How to navigate current workplace realities, including overworking and AI integration 

Connect with Lisa Kaplin

Website | LinkedIn 

Transcript

Welcome And The Sunk Cost Hook

John Neral 0:03

Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. I'm your host, John Merrill. This is the show for mid-career professionals who feel stuck, undervalued, or unsure what's next, and know that doing more isn't the answer. Here we focus on how you show up, how you make clear decisions, build influence, and take control of your career. Let's get started. Expenses. After all, getting a degree and obtaining an advanced degree doesn't come without some cost. It makes sense to invest in your career and your leadership development. After all, that is one way you choose to show up. But what do you do when you've invested all of this money and time, effort, and energy, and then decide you want to do something else? My guest today has lived this experience and shares what it means to ignore the sunk costs. Today you will meet Lisa Kaplan, an executive leadership coach, psychologist, and founder of Lisa Kaplan LLC. With over 25 years of experience in leadership development, Lisa specializes in helping senior leaders strengthen emotional intelligence, reduce stress, and lead with clarity, confidence, and resilience in high-pressured environments. Lisa is a professional certified coach and has coached executives and high potential leaders across industries, including cybersecurity, financial services, healthcare, and technology. Lisa's coaching integrates evidence-based coaching with practical leadership tools to help her clients improve decision making, communication, relationships, and overall performance. Known for her warm, direct, and practical approach, Lisa partners with leaders who want to thrive, not just survive, while navigating constant change and increasing demands. I met Lisa a few months ago when we served on a webinar panel sponsored by the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching. IPEC is where we both obtained our coaching certification. And it was after being on that panel with her that I knew I had to have her on the podcast. So sit back and enjoy my conversation with Lisa Kaplan. Lisa Kaplan, welcome to the show. It is great to have you here today.

Lisa Kaplin 2:51

Thanks, John. I'm excited to be here.

Lisa’s Pivot From Therapy To Coaching

John Neral 2:54

You know, I shared a little bit in the introduction that we have a common bond through IPEC. And of course, one of the things that we know in IPEC is that we all have this journey, and this journey that brings us to where we are. Your mid-career moment is particularly interesting and one of the reasons why I wanted to have you on the show. Would you please share with us your mid-career moment?

Lisa Kaplin 3:19

I'm happy to. So after I had I got a master's and a doctorate in psychology when I was having three young children. I had three young children, and I finished my internship and I did all the things. And then I kind of stepped away. Um I did a few things related to psychology, but I stepped away. And then after a few years, I wanted to get back what I thought was psychology because that's what I had studied. And I was kind of lost. I, a friend told me, Oh, go go take this coaching course. It'll help you kind of get back into it, get your clinical skills back. So I went to IPEC and fairly quickly I knew I never wanted to do therapy again. And um kind of my head exploded as well as many people around me's head exploded. I had spent a ton of money and a ton of time getting this degree. And then all of a sudden I was like, yeah, that's not what I want to do. Now, coaching has some similar vibes, obviously, but I I essentially walked away from a master's and a doctorate of like literally intense, expensive, like life-changing education. I was like, Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna go be a coach, which freaked a few people out in my life.

John Neral 4:37

And that's judgment. Um, so Lisa, for for the listeners who have heard it from me, but we haven't talked about it in a while. Let's hear it from you. What's the difference between therapy and coaching?

Lisa Kaplin 4:57

Yeah, this is a huge question. I mean, it looks very similar, right? It's a confidential space, it's often two people speaking to each other. There's a bit of a hierarchy in therapy where the therapist is the expert and the client is the client. Um in coaching your equals. Um, and the other big difference, and it there's there's a lot of variables here because there's a lot of different therapy modalities, but therapy often is about um really uh processing the past and coaching is tapping into the past to get to the present to move to the future. And I think the big shift for me when I learned about coaching and I learned how to coach was the forward motion of it. I loved it. And I realized that I didn't really want to work in the trauma, severe mental illness space, which is the space I had been in. I believe in therapy and I'm glad there's great therapists out there to do that work. I just didn't want to do it.

John Neral 5:50

Yeah, I I I get that. Um, I I got my bachelor's in psychology and thought I was gonna go through the whole path and have the shingle on the door and all that kind of stuff, and then very quickly realized I didn't think I could emotionally handle that.

Lisa Kaplin 6:04

Yeah. Right.

John Neral 6:05

So I got out of that a little bit earlier and then I went into teaching and did an education career for 25 years. So there you go. You know, because what better way to teach middle school than to have that have a math certification and a psych degree to go with? Well, there it is.

Lisa Kaplin 6:22

I mean, that psych degree never goes to waste, as I say all the time, never goes to waste.

Ignore Sunk Costs And Move Forward

John Neral 6:27

So I'm really glad you said that because as we navigate our mid-career, what we have learned through our education and what we have learned through our professional and personal experiences, those totalities all bring us to this particular point. Totally. And for the person who's listening today that is struggling to find their way or to figure out what their next step's gonna be, because they're they're okay where they are, they're unhappy where they are, but they just don't want to settle, right? They know they're capable of more. Right. What would you say to them in terms of getting past all of the quote unquote baggage they may be holding on to and beating themselves up to move them forward?

Lisa Kaplin 7:19

Yeah, this is um such a great question. So as a finance major in college, you see that really panned out as well. Um, but one of the most important things I learned, and I share this with my kids all the time, I was a finance major and economics minor, is to ignore your sunk costs. And so, what do I mean by that for an education? Is a lot of times people get stuck in, and I was stuck a little bit in this, like, oh my gosh, I got this, you know, doctoral degree that cost me literally a hundred thousand dollars, and and I spent all this time and money. And I that's what I have to do because that's what I've already invested in, and that's the lie. You don't have to ignore your sunk costs, you'll bring everything you've learned, your whole life experience with you. But if you hold on to this, I have to, I should, I must, you're gonna be stuck. You're never gonna figure out what you really want to do. Honestly, once I made the shift, it's been a joy and and you know, it's not easy to start a business, but it's been a joyful process because it was exactly who I was and what I wanted to do. So when I ignored my son costs, like those I the money's spent, I can't get it back, right? The education is done, I have it, I'm I use it in some ways, move forward. It's that stuck in the past thing that really holds people back.

John Neral 8:39

So I'm curious when you talk about the monies already spent, if you don't mind me asking, was it already paid off?

Lisa Kaplin 8:48

No. No. So that was the other thing. My husband was like, I'm sorry, did you just say that you don't want to be a psychologist? And you have about like a hundred thousand dollars in debt. Like he was looking at me like, what have I done? You know, who have I married? But I knew, I knew in my heart that if I picked the career that was right for me, the money would follow, the the security would follow. I was able to pay off the loans very quickly once I moved into this area. And it, you know, I had to have some faith in that. And I also am privileged because I had a husband who I could survive, right? We could survive on on the one income. So I know all that. And and not everybody has that. And I think that's an important piece to keep in mind. And yet we all know that when we're where we're supposed to be, the abundance flows with it.

John Neral 9:44

It's that alignment we look for.

Lisa Kaplin 9:46

The alignment, right?

John Neral 9:47

Yeah.

Lisa Kaplin 9:47

It's the alignment.

John Neral 9:49

On the podcast, we've talked a little bit before about what I call my four F framework. And the four F's, and they're all G-rated. So if you're listening in the car and you've got kids in, don't feel like you have to do that.

Lisa Kaplin 10:00

No, right? Could you just add a fit just for fun?

John Neral 10:08

It's implied. Um, okay, good. So so the four F's, Lisa, are fit, right? So, so where do we fit organizationally, right? The the function, what's the work that we get to do that really taps into our genius, our special talents, our superpowers, if you will, the finance, because we have to talk about money and how we're compensated. And then the last step is forward. And forward is the one I often find mid-career professionals struggle with because for some who are just looking to check the box and get the job or get the promotion, they're not looking a few steps ahead to see where that sweet spot really is for them professionally. Yep. Yep. On your path and with the clients whom you help, talk to me a little bit about what forward looks like in that arena.

Lisa Kaplin 11:06

Yeah, that's such a good thing. I mean, in many areas it showed up for me that I realized I have a vivid memory of working with some therapy clients and being like, okay, we've talked about that. Chop chop, let's move forward. And that was my agenda, not theirs. Um and I I I own probably a few of them, a couple sessions. But um, with when I switched into coaching, the forward was so clear of the type of clients that I wanted to work with that seemed to be attracted to me as well. There was like a great mix, but also the future of what this career could look like. So forward was I could do this as I got older. I could do this if I wanted to travel and not be in the same place all the time. Um, I could make my own schedule. I mean, there's a lot of limitations also around getting licensed as a therapist and and the kind of relationships you could have with people. All that was off the table because coaching is very different. So that's what forward looked like to me. And I want to make sure. Am I answering your question?

John Neral 12:07

You are. Yes, absolutely. Yes.

Lisa Kaplin 12:10

I had four F's in my mind. I just want to make sure.

John Neral 12:16

Talk to us a little bit about the kind of people whom you help today. What's their avatar?

Lisa Kaplin 12:23

Their avatar is really smart, really um intense, successful. Um, they they're driven, they do, they are very tied to their values and what they love, and they're burnt out and they're stressed and they're overwhelmed, and they've been on this path of what they should be doing for a long time, and they don't know how to get out of it. And so it's like they're stuck and and they're doing the same thing over and over, right? You know, and then kind of the definition of insanity.

John Neral 12:59

They're not insane, but can you give us an example of what stuck looks like for them?

Lisa Kaplin 13:05

It's I have to follow this specific corporate path, or I have to um, I have to work 60 hours a week because these people need me. Um, I it's there's a lot of have-to's. And instead of this is really what I want, and this is also the best way to find, and it's an overuse word, balance in my life. So that I love, I still love what I do, and I have a a life outside of work that I also love and brings me joy. And so that's the missing piece for a lot of them. They're they love what they do. I mean, there's a true passion to it, but they're missing out on other aspects and they see it and they know it.

The Four Fs And Planning Ahead

John Neral 13:48

So when I hear you say have-to's, have-to's, I think of that that gremlin or that that little demon, if you will, that sits on our shoulder and is is talking to us about all of the things that are going to happen if we don't.

Lisa Kaplin 14:07

Yeah. Yeah.

John Neral 14:09

Right. So I have to stay late at work, which means I'm gonna miss my kids' soccer game. And I really want to be there, but I have to provide for my family. So I'm going to have to stay late.

Lisa Kaplin 14:20

Yes. Have to, have to, have to. And the heaviness of have-to's, right? Versus what if you chose sometimes you you will choose to stay at work for you don't want to lose your job, or you know, you wanna, you're there's something that's calling to you, but you're choosing it versus the have to. And that have to is so heavy. It's like it's a should, you know, it's so heavy.

John Neral 14:46

So for someone who's listening and they're sitting here and going, I have a horrible relationship with my supervisor, my manager, my leader, my executive. And and I have to find a way to just deal with the circumstance.

Lisa Kaplin 15:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1 15:05

Yeah.

John Neral 15:06

What would you tell him?

Burnout And The Weight Of Have To

Lisa Kaplin 15:08

I'd ask him a few questions, needless to say, because I'm a coach. Um, but the the have to to make a decent relationship, like there's a mess in there. That that sentence was a mess for that person versus okay, what's going on in this relationship that's keeping probably both people dissatisfied? What can I do to change that? What how can I change my mindset around it? Because we can't change other people. And and then from there, this is this is an important piece because a lot of my clients are trying to make decisions about their career from that really unhappy place. That's not a great place to make your decision, right? Because you're making it out of stress. So, what if this this example you gave me, they first figured it out and then made their career decision from a place of peace. Of this might not be the job for me. This might not be the manager that I want to be with. Okay, but I'm making it from a peaceful place versus a stressed place. And that shift alone, huge, as you know.

John Neral 16:12

Oh absolutely. I I remember leaving an organization and really stepping into the agency that I had to say, I don't have to be here.

Lisa Kaplin 16:28

Yes.

John Neral 16:28

I I make a choice to be here. And if it's no longer a great fit, or I no longer like working here, or they don't like me anymore. I know that's hard to believe, but you know, that's shocking to me. There are people in the world that don't. Uh right. So that I have that agency to say I'm 100% responsible for my career. I can step out if I want.

Lisa Kaplin 16:54

That's that's it. And so sometimes people say, but that's not really true because I've golden handcuffs or I'm waiting for my 411k, or blah, blah, blah. All that's true. And yet you're still you still get to choose if you stay or not, and you still get to choose if you stay how you want to think about your staying, or you're going, whatever it is. That you're you if you can't change, you know, if you can't choose to change the situation, you can choose to change how you look at the situation, and that's the power right there. Because there's a lot of things. Like, honestly, I don't ever want to cook dinner again, ever. But it turns out like people that I love like to eat. So, you know what I mean? I'm gonna choose to feed them, right? Versus like, oh, I have to feed these people, right? Which is really then not a lot of love put in that meal that I might cook or order.

John Neral 17:49

There is there is something nice about ordering out every now and then. I totally, I totally get that. And then, you know, last night I messed up the tenderloins. So, you know, that was like, well, that was some sunk cost.

Lisa Kaplin 18:00

There it is, just to stop. It's done. It's done. Ignore your sunk costs, it's done. Can't get it back, right?

John Neral 18:07

So, Lisa, we are recording this towards the beginning of March, and I'm sharing that time frame in terms of some context. So, February jobs report was not great. No, the world is in a very tumultuous and difficult spot at the time of our recording.

Lisa Kaplin 18:26

On fire, yeah.

John Neral 18:27

On fire. Prices are being impacted.

Lisa Kaplin 18:31

Yeah.

John Neral 18:32

And if there's one thing I'm seeing here in 2026, I'm curious for your take on this as well, is that there is this hesitation, even more so than what we had in 2025, that we should be quote unquote grateful for the job that we have, even though it's not ideal, because it's giving me a paycheck and I don't know where the next job is coming from. That's a thought.

Lisa Kaplin 19:02

It is. It is a thought.

John Neral 19:04

For the person who's thinking that, how would you challenge them on that thought?

Hard Managers And Peaceful Decisions

Lisa Kaplin 19:09

Yeah, this is a great one. I mean, one I'd say that thought is valid, you know, and the feelings that come with that certainly valid because you're right, all the things, all those other things. And yet, the the limiting belief is that if the world's on fire, there are no jobs available. That's not true. Yeah, I graduate from college at a time where everyone's like, you'll never get a job. I got a job. Like, I got a job pretty quickly and pretty easily in banking, no less. So the that mindset is going to keep somebody from getting out there and really looking and getting creative and looking for other opportunities. Here's the other thing. Maybe, you know, with all that, that that stability right now is the right choice for you to stay is the right choice. Okay, what can you add to your? Can you take a, you know, a class in something? Can you come learn a new hobby? Um, you know, can can you do something else to bring that joy and excitement to your life? Find it in other ways, right? The what I see a lot of people doing is I have to be here. I'm miserable. I go home and I'm miserable. I go to work and I'm miserable. All that, that misery, your choice. I'm sad with love and kindness. Like you're choosing that. There's people out there who do factory jobs that look pretty miserable that have find found joy and happiness in their lives, right? They've chosen to find it.

John Neral 20:37

I like what you said about finding ways to get creative.

Lisa Kaplin 20:42

Yeah.

John Neral 20:43

Because that's a huge mind shift. Right. So we don't have to be stuck in that regard and we can we can look for something that can bring us some happiness, bring us some joy, even if it's just, I just got to get through my nine to five so I can get to the weekend and do something I love.

Lisa Kaplin 21:00

Right. And think about what you want to do on that weekend that you're gonna love and you're gonna have so much fun doing, or even, you know, when you finish work is what can what's what's a small thing you could do to find a little joy in those moments, right? And and even the job. What do you love about the job? Do you love a coworker? Do you love, you know, your lunch hour? What do you love about it? There's gotta be one or two things, hopefully. How can you tap into that every day? So that the the concept that I hear people say this all the time. My clients say this to me. I'll be happy when I retire. And then I'm like, oh, when is that? Oh, 10 years. I'm like, okay, excuse me, you're gonna take 10 years of your one beautiful life and be miserable.

John Neral 21:43

Right.

Lisa Kaplin 21:44

Wow. That hurts. Yeah.

John Neral 21:47

And it just speaks volumes to the heaviness you talked about earlier.

Lisa Kaplin 21:51

Yeah. Yeah. Right. And it's drudging through each day. Who wants to do that?

unknown 21:57

Yeah.

John Neral 21:58

So Lisa, let's uh Let's do a little rapid fire here if you if you don't mind. Okay. So just simply fill fill in the blank for me here, okay? Okay. The biggest challenge I see mid-career professionals facing in 2026 is their own mindset. The biggest challenge I see leaders and executives facing in 2026 is overworking. If the ideal company could do one thing to make employees' work life better, it would be.

Lisa Kaplin 22:37

Oh good God. Today is, you know, this is women's national or international women's month. Give women longer maternity leaves and give men paternity leaves. Give them benefits. They will stay with you and be loyal with you forever. It's shocking to me how easy that is.

Job Market Fear And Creative Options

John Neral 22:59

Absolutely agreed. Um it's December 31st, 2026. The biggest accomplishment we have made in the workforce this year was.

Lisa Kaplin 23:24

Yeah. I'm seeing extremes on either end, like all AI all the time, or no AI ever. It's here. How are you gonna find a healthy relationship with it? Both as an individual but as teams, as organizations, what's gonna be that that makes where we use it to make our lives I don't know, more enjoyable. I can't think of a better word. Um and so we're not fighting it and we're not also fawning over it like it's the next second coming. You know what I mean?

John Neral 23:55

Yeah. Um so speaking issue. For me, my proudest accomplishment this year has been what?

Lisa Kaplin 24:06

So far this year? Oh gosh. Um time with family for sure, and also rolling out a an emotional intelligence course for coaches and others that is really tied to my values and also to coaching to iPEC to many of the things that I value so much.

John Neral 24:28

Nice.

Lisa Kaplin 24:29

Yes.

John Neral 24:30

Nice, really, really good. Thanks for playing along with that. That was fun.

Lisa Kaplin 24:34

Fun, thank you.

John Neral 24:35

Absolutely. Lisa, we've covered a lot. We've covered everything from your career path to ignoring the sunk costs to how mid-career professionals are navigating this year and a really great conversation, too, on just helping us shift our mindset and get clearer about our thoughts and where we are. So as we wrap up, if you could give one piece of advice to help someone build their mid-career GPS, what would it be?

Lisa Kaplin 25:06

I mean, this sounds a little self-serving, but get yourself a coach, like invest in your future now, figure it out so that you don't keep going in like another five years, another 10 years, whether it's a coach or a mentor, whatever it works for you, figure it out so that your path forward is very clear. And and so do that, that inner work. So so often we see a lot of mid-career professionals focusing on LinkedIn and their resume, and those matter. What matters more is your internal processing.

John Neral 25:41

Yeah, we have to take care of ourselves. And that's a great way for us to do that, especially if if your company offers something like that, tap into it, whether it be an employee assistance program or a professional professional development benefit. But if not, then how could you potentially invest in yourself in some way that would be beneficial and helpful as well?

Lisa Kaplin 26:06

Right. I think I I mean I could pull out a couple Amazon purchases a month and and really be set for coaching for life.

unknown 26:15

Right.

John Neral 26:16

Right.

Lisa Kaplin 26:17

Hiring my own coach, yeah.

John Neral 26:18

That impulse thing with the algorithm and everything like that. Yeah, absolutely. I get it.

Lisa Kaplin 26:24

Exactly.

John Neral 26:24

I get it. All right, Lisa. Um it has been such a joy. We recently connected. Thanks to Natalie Sistin and IPEC for connecting us. Um if people want to find you, connect with you, learn more about you. I'm gonna turn the mic over to you. Please share with us all the great things where people can connect.

Lisa Kaplin 26:42

Definitely connect with me in LinkedIn. It's K-A-P-L-I-N. Blame my husband's family for that spelling. Uh Lisa Kaplan, or my website is Lisa Kaplan.com, or my email is Lisa at Lisa Kaplan.com. I kept it really creative and simple. Um, so I'd love to hear from you. Happy to connect um on LinkedIn or beyond.

John Neral 27:04

Yeah, I will make sure all of that is in the show notes. Lisa Kaplan, thank you for being such a great guest on the MidCareer GPS podcast today.

Lisa Kaplin 27:12

Thanks, John. It's been so much fun. It's great connecting with you.

Rapid Fire On 2026 Work Trends

John Neral 27:16

Thank you. All right, my friends. We covered a lot in this episode, but if there's one big takeaway, here's what I want you to hone in on this week. What are you thinking? What are your thoughts? What thoughts are particularly holding you back along this mid-career journey? Are you beating yourself up over some sunk costs that Lisa talked about when she shared about her education and professional path to where she is now? Are you beating yourself up over all of the have-to's that you're saying to yourself about your current work situation and what might be something you can do to actually shift that? This week I want you to get really clear on what your thoughts are and your feelings behind them. So ultimately you can decide on which action step is best for you. So, my friends, remember this. You will build your mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time, and how you show up matters. Make it a great rest of your day. Thank you for listening to the Mid Career GPS Podcast. Make sure to follow on your favorite listening platform. And if you have a moment, I'd love to hear your comments on Apple Podcasts. Visit johnnarrell.com for more information about how I can help you build your mid-career GPS, or how I can help you and your organization with your next workshop or public speaking event. Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and follow me on social at John Darrell Coaching. I look forward to being back with you next week. Until then, take care. And remember, how we show up matters.