268: Estate Planning Essentials for Mid-Career Professionals with Andrea Bryk

What happens if you are no longer here or unable to care for yourself? How protected are your loved ones? We all need to have this conversation, but many mid-career professionals avoid it because they don’t feel they need to or have to.

In this episode, you'll meet Andrea Bryk, who believes everyone, not just the wealthy, deserves peace of mind regarding estate planning. Andrea's goal is to make estate planning not horrible. Andrea shares why everyone must have an estate plan, how to talk to your gain parents about their healthcare and estate planning, the differences between a will and a trust, and why everyone needs to do a technology inventory starting right now. 

Connect with Andrea Bryk
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Chapters

• 0:00 Estate Planning for Working Families
• 5:41 Estate Planning Simplified for Professionals
• 11:23 Planning for Aging Parents and Careers
• 22:52 Preparing for Aging and Care Management
• 35:24 Navigating Mid-Career Success

Transcript

John Neral: 0:00

Hey there, what happens if you are no longer here or unable to take care of yourself? I know that's a hard question to start off at the top of a podcast, but I gotta ask you how protected are you and your loved ones? This is a conversation we all need to have, but many mid-career professionals avoid it because they don't feel they need to or have to. I'm here to tell you. You do need to have this conversation, and my guest today is here to help you have that conversation. Today you will meet attorney Andrea B, who specializes in estate planning for working families. Her goal is to make estate planning not horrible and in this episode, andrea shares why everyone must have an estate plan, how to talk to your parents about their healthcare and estate planning, the differences between a will and a trust, and why everyone needs to do a technology inventory, starting right now. We got a lot to cover. Let's get started. Hello, my friends, this is the Mid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm your host, john Nerrell. I help mid-career professionals like you find a job they love, or love the job they have, using my proven four-step formula.

John Neral: 1:32

Andrea Bryk is the founder and attorney at the Bryk Law Firm, located in Northern Virginia. Andrea and I met through our local chamber of commerce and I appreciate her compassion and knowledge in this space, earning her law degree from the Catholic University of Commerce. And I appreciate her compassion and knowledge in this space, earning her law degree from the Catholic University of America Columbus School of Law. Andrea's goal is to make sure people are not blindsided by all of the rules and processes associated with transferring assets. Death and taxes equally apply to everyone, but those without a plan may be taxed more than those who are prepared. She knows that the idea that trust-based planning is only necessary for the ultra-wealthy is false. Estate planning matters most to those who can least afford to lose. Grab a pen, grab a piece of paper, take some notes. This is a wonderful conversation I'm so happy to share with you. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Andrea Brick. Andrea Brick, my friend, welcome to the Mid-Career GPS podcast.

Andrea Bryk: 2:42

Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to talk with you today.

John Neral: 2:44

Yeah, we're going to have a great conversation. As I shared with you previously, this is one we have not addressed on the podcast, which is why I'm so honored to have you here today. But before we get into that, Andrea, what was your mid-career moment you want to share with all of us?

Andrea Bryk: 3:08

moment you want to share with all of us. My mid-career moment was when I knew I was going to open my own firm and practice estate planning law for the rest of the time. That was it, and I knew that in 2008. I knew it when I said to my husband listen, I'll go back to work after having this baby, but when he goes into the seventh grade, I'm knocking all that off and I'm opening my firm in the house and I'm going to do estate planning because people need it.

John Neral: 3:37

What is it about estate planning that makes you so passionate about it?

Andrea Bryk: 3:42

The fact that, a most people get it wrong and B they don't want to spend the money and the truth is they don't have enough money not to estate plan. And C I think that estate planning and knowledge of it is unfairly skewed towards the wealthier classes. I don't know what the right term is for the wealthier classes, but if you've got $5 to $10 million in the bank or more, you've heard of estate planning and why it could benefit you. If you don't have $5 million or more in the bank, nobody's talking to you about it, and that's the problem. 5 million or more in the bank Nobody's talking to you about it, and that's the problem.

John Neral: 4:26

To help all the listeners understand exactly what you mean by this, how do you define estate planning?

Andrea Bryk: 4:38

Well, first let's say that death and taxes apply to everybody and in all of the political and legal changes we've had in the last four years. Let's go 2020 forward. None of those rules have changed. Right, so you're going to pay taxes or be exempt from taxes and we're all going to die. And what? How you transfer your belongings right?

Andrea Bryk: 5:06

And estate isn't a good word because people think about owning property. And no, it's not about a big 50 acre farm country, something or other. It's about your shoes and pants you own when you turn 18, your shoes, your pants, your phone, your car, the necklace, the earring in your ears, your retainer these are the things you own. These make up your estate. You, as their owner, have a responsibility for deciding what happens to them after you die.

Andrea Bryk: 5:41

But more than that, you need to be aware of the processes that occur for the transferring of those assets. There are three ways to do it, john there's without a will, there's with a will and then there's through a trust. If you have no will or you have a will, your estate will go through probate, which is a court state law process. If you pass your assets in trust, there's no probate. So I know we're going to talk a little bit more about that, but that's sort of the key. Do I put my family and loved ones through this nasty oversight process that can take 18 months and cost thousands of dollars, or do I maybe spend a little bit more upfront with an attorney and take care of all that now? Whoosh, it's done.

John Neral: 6:40

So, andrea, you and I both know people and we're not going to name who they are, okay, but they delay writing a will, they delay the whole estate planning process. What have you found to be the biggest reason?

Andrea Bryk: 7:04

why people don't have a will or they don't have an estate plan, because I really a will is nothing. I want to talk with people about the other ways to do this. I think they believe the process is burdensome, right, or it's overwhelming. They have to get all their. They have to. What if they don't know people who could be backup? What if they really don't want to put all their bank stuff together because they opened a checking account at EveryBake in Virginia, right to get the toaster? It's that kind of.

Andrea Bryk: 7:36

And also and this is where I come in to try to change this there's just a lack of information, right, you can look at websites all day long. This is all open source material, but putting it together concisely so that someone understands what their choices are, that's not out there, right? So overwhelming lack of understanding, lack of organization. So my funny story was I was 25 years old, had my first couple of jobs and I knew I needed to do something because I was a woman living alone in Washington DC and a law firm gave me this huge packet of paper to fill out and I looked through it. I left it on a desk for a month. I looked through it again, was like I can't, it's too much. Like I can't do it right, threw it in the garbage. Can Didn't think about estate planning again for five years, right, that's not what we want. I aim to make this simple and easy.

John Neral: 8:39

So, to help make that simple and easy, what do you want mid-career professionals to know is the first step they should take in terms of planning their estate.

Andrea Bryk: 8:52

That's great. I'm so glad you asked. So a mid-career professional may or may not have a business, may or may not have real estate, may or may not have children, and none of those things matter. As a person over the age of 18, you have a responsibility to have an estate plan, because what's going to happen to your property if you're unable to manage it? So the first thing I want them to do is either call up an attorney and sit down and understand the process, or go to a seminar or you know one of those things, because then you're going to get from soup to nuts how the system really works, what those options know will will trust what that really means. And then how do they apply that to their life? Right, cause that's the framework. And then they apply that to their life right, because that's the framework. And then we apply it to their life. Everybody needs powers of attorney, right? If we're driving on Interstate 66 or some highway somewhere, anything could happen at any moment, and a power of attorney handles emergencies. Everybody needs that.

John Neral: 10:03

Yep, totally agree. I can remember when we got all that stuff in place. It was hard, but at the same time it was like a huge weight lifted off the shoulder because at least you felt like, okay, things are taken care of if, and the ifs in big capital letters.

Andrea Bryk: 10:20

Right, I told you about my if last summer, when it was a hot Wednesday at five o'clock and we were driving down a busy street and I couldn't figure out what that thing tickling my leg was, and it turned out to be a juvenile rattlesnake.

John Neral: 10:34

Oh my gosh, I forgot about this, yeah.

Andrea Bryk: 10:37

With the people. Oh my gosh, what do you do? You were never going to make it to a hospital. I mean, thank goodness, my husband drove, you know, perpendicular to traffic and got to the side of the road, but it was a horrifying couple of minutes.

John Neral: 10:51

Oh, my, oh, oh.

Andrea Bryk: 10:52

We never would have made it to a hospital Right. And then my husband, my kids and the rattlesnake body.

John Neral: 10:59

Oh, yeah, yeah, all the creepies and everything, because the naughty, oh yeah, yeah, all all all the creepies and everything.

Andrea Bryk: 11:06

Cause the fact, I hate snakes so much, so bad. I look I'm smiling now. My husband and I were talking about it yesterday and he was like it might only be funny to us and I said, yeah, and it's still not really that funny, yeah.

John Neral: 11:19

Craziness Okay.

Andrea Bryk: 11:21

Okay, andrea.

John Neral: 11:22

Yeah, no. So, andrea. Here's the thing we have mid-career professionals who are listening, who have parents who are aging, and one of the things that we often see happens at midlife and mid-career is that people are raising their families while, at the same time, beginning to, or are taking care of their aging parents. That's a difficult conversation to have when you're the kid and you now need to talk to your parents about their estate and their wishes. How do you make that easier for them so they can have those difficult conversations with their parents about their wellbeing and wishes?

Andrea Bryk: 12:13

I like to remind those people in my age group, that mid-career professional, I like to remind them that when we get to 70 plus, 80 plus, we're going to want two things we're going to want to be independent and comfortable. And so, as they approach their parents who probably really don't want to talk about this, don't want to talk about the money, don't want to talk about depends, underpants and all the things that might happen in the future, because they're trying to stay comfortable and independent that they use those two words as the entrance to the conversation. Listen, mom, dad, I want you to stay comfortable and independent, and for me to help you do that, I'm going to need to do a couple of things, and here's what I've learned. One estate planning is about your life right now. It's not just about what happens after your life.

Andrea Bryk: 13:14

Estate planning, those powers of attorney, allow someone else to act for you if you can't. So, for example, got to go to the bank for mom and deposit a check or get cash out so she can go grocery shopping. Mom got in the car, needs to stay there until they get to the store. Right, with some pre-planning and a power of attorney naming the daughter, let's say, it's me, you'll be able to do that. Right, you can access and step into the shoes of your loved one if you're their agent under power of attorney. We prepare those for household and financial matters, and then we also prepare one for healthcare matters, because the truth is, sometimes you want one person making healthcare decisions and someone else who might be responsible with dollars and cents, um, and you start talking that way like what, if? What? If you fall down, I need to be able to make the decisions for you. Right, right so, and then, once you have that conversation and they'll feel comfortable about the things that happen during their lifetime, you can start talking about well, what do you know? What happens if you just have a will or if you don't have a will, do you?

Andrea Bryk: 14:36

I learned recently how it's different if we set up a trust. No, you don't have to have $5 million in the bank to set up a trust. Up a trust. No, you don't have to have $5 million in the bank to set up a trust. Passing assets through trust is the way to avoid probate. Oh, well, probably it's not that big of a deal. Well, actually it is. Let me tell you what's going to happen and how hard that will be for me, trying to raise my kids and trying to probate your estate at the same time when. What if you could have just passed it to me? No time, no nothing, it just came to us right. How about?

John Neral: 15:16

that. Is that what you would want? Or do you want to create hardship? Hey there, do you get nervous on a job interview? I mean, look, we all get nervous, but do you get really nervous so much to the point where you feel like you can't put words together and you just don't know how to answer a specific question? It's understandable and that happens. You care. But if you want to do better at your next job interview, I've got a free resource to help you.

John Neral: 15:44

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Andrea Bryk: 16:40

It is, and I like to do that, and sometimes it's at somebody's coffee table over a cup of coffee. Sometimes we're standing around the kitchen. I have had ladies have dinner parties where they bring in the estate planning attorney and I talk with them all at the same time about what's going on and what's involved Right. Going on and what's involved right, and I try to keep it really simple and, if you'll indulge me, I will tell your listeners how I walk clients through the difference between having a will and having a trust. So, post-life activities we have to pass those assets, whether it's shoes and pants or a barn with horses. We've got to pass them to whoever you choose. If you die without a will, those assets go to people the state determined through succession laws. If you write a will, you choose who gets those assets and in what proportion, but the process is still the same. It's like walking around life wearing a backpack and all of your assets are tucked into that backpack right, cause you hold them in your name. You're wearing the backpack. When you die, you go poof right and the backpack falls on the ground and, like we've all seen, like the purse spilled and the lipstick goes rolling out and the paper and the tissues, and the wallet opens and the coins flop out.

Andrea Bryk: 18:12

The probate process is one of oversight and the job of the court is to help the executor scoop everything back up into the and then go through it in an organized manner. We're going to inventory everything in the backpack and then we're going to do an accounting of everything in the backpack every bank statement, every check, every receipt. We're going to lay them all out, from the day this person died to the day we write checks to her heirs. That is a long, lengthy, tedious public process. Nothing that happens in America's courts aren't public. So whether you have to go to the courthouse and take a look at the file or maybe you're like California where it's all published online everything in that backpack is going to be available for the public to review.

Andrea Bryk: 19:03

Once quarter start is done, you can write the checks. But you can avoid that if you prepare a trust. What a trust is like is a little red wagon and you put your backpack full of your stuff into the wagon and then you're just pulling your wagon around. When you die, the wagon doesn't tip over and spill everything. The wagon's still there. All that's happened is the handle fell on the ground and you've already named in the trust the person to pick up the handle. So they bypass probate. Everything in the backpack that's in the wagon bypasses the court. We just walked straight to the house of the people who are supposed to get checks and divvy it up that way, and when people see the ease and difference they're sort of flabbergasted and like, oh, I want to do that, I want a wagon, like you sure do, right?

John Neral: 20:02

Well, it it makes it. You just clearly described it for us, and I love the comparisons between the backpack and the wagon, like who wouldn't want the wagon right?

Andrea Bryk: 20:11

Who doesn't want a wagon?

John Neral: 20:13

Yeah.

Andrea Bryk: 20:14

Right, all your instructions. So when you, when you get a wagon from an attorney, it might be a hundred pages long, but, like you said earlier, we're going to put it on the shelf and we're just going to know that it's done. It's the best pieces of paper you can have sitting on your shelf. It's all done. Right, you did the work.

John Neral: 20:35

I'll never forget years ago, as I was listening to Susie Orman and talking about some financial decisions and things like that, and she said you make these life decisions to take care of the people you love, and in taking care of the people you love, you do it to make it as easiest for them as possible so they can just love you.

Andrea Bryk: 20:57

Right, yeah, right. The thing with Susie and the same thing with Dave Ramsey, who is my personal, or whatever, is, when they talk about here's a $50 will format, fill it in. They're not taking you to the next level, which is the issue. If you pass your assets through a will, they will go through probate. If you put your assets into the little red wagon, the revocable living trust, you will not go through probate. If you put your assets into the little red wagon, the revocable living trust, you will not go through probate.

John Neral: 21:29

Andrea, this is all super helpful and I want to just pivot this conversation a little bit because I want to talk about care. And so for our mid-career professionals who are listening, they might be in charge of their parents' care or even appointed as a care manager for their parents, who may be in a position where they're not able to act or represent. Can you talk to us a little bit about what it means to be a care manager and why? That's another important consideration in this conversation.

Andrea Bryk: 22:04

Well, I'm going to change your language and I'm going to use the word caretaker or guardian, right? So guardian is a legal term of art. That means a court appointed person could be a family member, but a court appointed person because our principal now no longer has capacity and so someone else has to make the decisions for them. That's different from my mom, who is 88 and I'm her number one helper. Or we've brought in a nurse who is there once a day, 24 hours the whole gamut In which case I might just be her healthcare agent, right? The one making the decisions for her through that legal document, the healthcare power of attorney.

Andrea Bryk: 22:52

Here's what I like to talk with my clients about, and and I'm in my fifties, so, starting about this time, you know I'm thinking about retirement I should also be thinking about my capacities becoming more and more limited, and so when you're sitting there with your parents, you want to know a couple things. One, if they don't want you being the person helping to take care of stuff around the house, who are you going to be able to use? Do they have a handyman they like? Do they have neighbors with a son that comes over and hammers, nails and moves pictures Are they willing to use TaskRabbit and, for five bucks an hour, have someone come in and do these things? I like my clients to sort of start thinking about identifying the person who's going to help them keep their house maintained when they can't do it. But there's also the care piece that you mentioned, which is what about the health stuff, what about activities of daily living and what happens when those start to collapse a little. I like them to understand what a care manager is and what in-home care is right. So we have corporate organizations, we have private companies where we sell the service of in-home care.

Andrea Bryk: 24:19

There's the person who provides the care and then there's the person that manages them. That's the care manager. Usually that's an RN who understands all of the medical terminology, understands all of the pharmaceutical terminology and all of the pharmaceutical terminology and understands she's not the one changing the bedpan, she's the one making sure that it's getting done, and then she communicates with you, the family member. So I like to give my clients you know we're looking at 50s, 60s, 70s. Let's start thinking about who that is, because more and more I see families or elderly clients or senior clients is the better word senior clients who are starting to slow down and they don't want their adult child to be the one who does it. Yeah, okay, that's because that adult child is running a business, working's got teenage, got teenage kids. All that makes sense.

Andrea Bryk: 25:15

So let's introduce you to some people that you could start developing your relationship with, because when you have the fall or the snake bites you and you're healing, you'll know to call them and say, okay, I'm ready for care to start. Right, so a care manager might just step in once a quarter for an hour for a visit and say how's everybody doing? Anything changed? We're still good. Okay, I'll see you next quarter, unless you call me sooner. But instigating those relationships is super important because bear with me one more second yeah, they're the ones that can help when it comes to the next level, right, are we talking about independent living, assisted living or skilled nursing care, when independence in the home is no longer feasible? What are these places? How do they work? Do I pay in? Do I pay rent or is it all the services? Can I escalate services? What if I get a diagnosis? That's kind of scary. Are they going to kick me out? And that care manager will be one of the first places you go to have start some of those conversations.

John Neral: 26:29

So helpful and I hope I hope people are. People are listening and they're taking notes safely, if they can do that, as they're doing all of this. So, Andrea, I've got one more question before we start wrapping up here, and it actually stems back to our pre-call that I found so interesting. Can you talk to us about the importance of doing a technology inventory, please?

Andrea Bryk: 26:56

Oh, yes, right, Talk about overwhelming technology inventory. So it used to be we would talk about well, if something happens to you, who are you going to have clean out your bed, stand right, your nightstand, where sort of all the little things you have, right? Who are you going to trust to do that? But the next piece of it is nowadays we've got a Safeway, a Wegmans, a Whole Foods, we've got Facebook, twitter. I got an Instagram once. What are those things? So I'm talking to families and business owners when I say this.

Andrea Bryk: 27:37

You need to develop, whether it's in an Excel chart, a Word document, some type of organizer on your computer or phone that someone can access when you're not there. What are all of the apps or memberships that you have, right? So it's not just that you use Verizon and Cox Cable. We should have those two, because they might be one of the first phone calls we make to say I have to shut this down. Let's talk about your Facebook account. Do you have three or do you have one, right? Let's talk about your Gmail accounts. Do you have seven? Do you have one? What about your home heating system? Do you have a smart HVAC system that we need to know how to access. These are all the things that we're going to need to shut down.

Andrea Bryk: 28:35

Some people keep a little purple notebook in the kitchen junk drawer where they have all of their passwords, you know, taped in and rubber banded together. Sometimes we've got those people who are using a password manager. Right, how do we get into the bank accounts? Like, how do we do all these things online? I think one of the reasons this is super important is because of the advent of online banking. Right? Raymond James doesn't want to send a paper statement anymore. They want you to go in and get it online. Well, if we can't get to your account online, we can't get the statements, because then we're calling and they're like well, who are you and what's your authority?

Andrea Bryk: 29:20

If you're not the trustee, if you're not the executor, who are you? Well, I'm an agent on her power of attorney. Will she alive or dead? I have a report that she's dead. The power of attorney doesn't work anymore when somebody dies. Who are you? So, to the extent that we can get them, here's the username and here's the password. You better tell the swimming pool. Here was our username and here's the password. All of those things in a list. But that's overwhelming, john. So 10 minutes at a time. 10 minutes at a time. I know people who scan in that little purple notebook. They rip out every sheet and they scan it in and then they can print it out and give it to somebody. Yeah, if you don't have a scanner sitting on your desk, you need one. Yeah.

John Neral: 30:09

Yeah, totally agree. And for everybody who's listening, just to reiterate one of Andrea's points right, so if you're feeling a little overwhelmed, 10 minutes at a time, but most importantly, take that time to go ahead and do it, because you're doing it now, while you can, and not scurrying around when ultimately the inevitable happens, and got to prepare for that moment as well.

Andrea Bryk: 30:35

I think it's really important, John, for sole proprietors or very small businesses like my own, where there's one person. Nobody else has authority to access a bank account. So you better have a power of attorney for your business and certainly a technology inventory for that business, because you have all sorts of subscriptions to be managing your business online or whatever.

John Neral: 31:04

Such a good point and I'm thankful that's all in place because, like you, being a sole business owner, it's important to have all that kind of be there. Andrea, this conversation has been so helpful and I'm so glad you and I got a chance to sit down. I want our listeners to know we've been trying to do this for a while, so I'm glad that we were able to have this conversation today.

John Neral: 31:27

I hope everybody got a lot of value out of it. But as we wrap up, what is one piece of advice you want to give the listeners today to help them build their mid-career GPS?

Andrea Bryk: 31:42

It's changed. Now that we've been talking, I think, though, that you have to follow your heart with reason. Right, it's good to noodle through the numbers, it's good to follow your gut, but the idea of being prepared for living in this world and the afterlife is marrying those two things together, right? You've got to marry them together. So find an attorney who will help you when you're overwhelmed with the paperwork, right? Someone that you don't just sign the contract and say, okay, we'll see you later, but someone who's out there, who's going to help you get it done.

Andrea Bryk: 32:21

When my clients are finally ready to make the move and sometimes it takes a year, sometimes it's a week when they finally decided I want to move on it quickly I'm not going to let them sit out there. I hear the horror stories of the attorneys that take a year to provide your documents. I guess I wish I was that busy, but probably not right. When we're started, we're also going to get it done, and I'm going to walk you through all the things you need to do now that we're putting your backpack into the wagon. All the things you need to do now that we're putting your backpack into the wagon so you can have a happy rest of your life and your loved ones will just love you to pieces when you pass.

John Neral: 33:04

Yeah, so well said. So, andrea, if people want to connect with you, find you, hire you, work with you, consult with you, whatever that might be, I'm going to turn the mic over to you and, by all means, please share all the great places where people can find and connect with you.

Andrea Bryk: 33:17

Thank you. Thanks so much. So I'm a huge fan of my website, wwwbricklawcom. We just have to remember it's a funny spelling of brick. It's b-r-y-k-lawcom, it's b-r-y-k-lawcom. You can reach out to me by email at andreaatbricklawcom or call me at 703-662-1453. John, thank you so much for having me today. It's my favorite topic. It's a sweet topic.

John Neral: 33:46

Yeah, no, I know, andrea, I like that you talk about it. I think the world of you. I'm so glad we got a chance to do this and thanks for being such a great guest on the Mid-Career GPS podcast. Yeah, so, my friends, if there's one big takeaway from this, here's what I want to offer you. I lost my parents years ago. My dad's been gone almost 20 years. My mom has been gone for 13.

John Neral: 34:12

And the fact that we had things in place to make their passing and transition easier was a blessing in so many ways. They're not easy conversations to have, but you do need to have them. So, wherever you're at with this, if there's one point of this episode, it's this there is no shame in acknowledging where you are in this, this. If there's one point of this episode, it's this there is no shame in acknowledging where you are in this process, but you got some information today. Andrea shared some incredible tips to help you get started or to figure out who you need to reach out to for whatever your estate planning and care needs may be, and I hope you will take this information and, just like you do with your mid-career GPS, build it one step at a time. So until next time my friends remember this you will build that mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time, and especially with this topic, how you show up matters. Make it a great rest of your day.

John Neral: 35:24

Thank you for listening to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. Make sure to follow on your favorite listening platform and, if you have a moment, I'd love to hear your comments on Apple Podcasts. Visit johnnarrellcom for more information about how I can help you build your mid-career gps or how I can help you and your organization with your next workshop or public speaking event. Don't forget to connect with me on linkedin and follow me on social at johnnerrellcoaching. I look forward to being back with you next week. Until then, take care and remember how we show up matters. Thank you.