264: Mastering Communication and Conflict Resolution Skills with Karin Hurt

Unlock the secrets to mastering communication in the post-pandemic workplace with our special guest, Karin Hurt, founder and CEO of Let's Grow Leaders. Karin opens up about a career-defining moment when a team member exposed her lack of vulnerability, leading her to pivot towards authentic leadership. We explore how remote work has fundamentally changed communication dynamics and discuss strategic approaches to bringing employees together, ensuring thoughtful and effective communication during these transitions.

Conflict at work can disrupt harmony, but it doesn't have to. Learn how to distinguish between minor annoyances and significant issues to reduce stress and foster a peaceful environment. We present practical advice and real-life examples on tackling workplace conflicts head-on, demonstrating the benefits of open communication and mutual understanding.

Transitioning relationships in the workplace, whether from colleagues to business partners or even romantic partners, brings its own set of challenges. Karin shares personal anecdotes and key strategies to maintain effective communication and manage conflicts in high-stakes environments. From choosing the right medium for emotionally charged messages to balancing confidence with humility, this episode provides valuable insights. Plus, discover how to build a mid-career GPS for professional growth, with resources and workshops available to guide you on your journey. Don't miss these tips for becoming the leader you've always wanted to be.

Connect with Karin Hurt
Website | LinkedIn 

Chapters

• 0:01 Effective Communication in the Post-Pandemic Workplace
• 12:04 Navigating Workplace Conflict With Powerful Phrases
• 23:26 Navigating Workplace Conflict With Confidence
• 31:32 Building Mid-Career Growth Through Podcasts

Transcript

John Neral: 0:01

One of the most powerful ways you can show up as a professional and as a leader is through your communication. Yet how many times have you tried to have a difficult conversation with a colleague or direct report and worried about what to say and how you were going to say it? See, if you're managing talent or have aspirations for advancing your career, you must become an expert at effective communication across a variety of situations and circumstances. Today, I'm joined by Karin Hurt. She is the founder and CEO of Let's Grow Leaders, a global human-centered leadership development company for practical tools and training that sticks. In our conversation, you'll learn how communication has dramatically changed because of remote work, as well as some powerful phrases to help start and finish any conversation with more confidence. Let's get started. Hello, my friends, this is the Mid-Career GPS podcast and I'm your host, John Neral. I help mid-career professionals like you find a job they love or love the job they have, using my proven four-step formula. Love or love the job they have, using my proven four-step formula.

John Neral: 1:30

My guest today is Karin Hurt and, along with David Dye, the president of Let's Grow Leaders, their expertise has been featured in numerous media outlets. Those include Inc, the Wall Street Journal, forbes, entrepreneur, fast Company and many more. Karen was recently named on Inc's list of 100 great leadership speakers and they've co-authored several books, including Courageous Cultures, winning Well and their new book Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict. As you listen to our conversation, I hope you'll pay particular attention to Karin's tips about how to check for tone in all forms of our communication. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Karen Hurt. Karen, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you here today. Oh, absolutely my pleasure. Glad to be here. The Mid-Career GPS podcast. And I'm curious what was that mid-career moment for you that changed your career trajectory or your career path? That brought you to where you are right now in the work you get to do?

Karin Hurt: 2:36

There were multiple pivot points, but this is the one that just really stands out for me. It's when I thought I was leading incredibly well. I had just been promoted to this big new executive role in human resources and I was asking my team to do things that I was unwilling to do, and so, basically, I was putting my own self-protection ahead of the good of the team. So I was leading this diversity council. I was asking everybody to be incredibly vulnerable. Let's use your personal experiences to inform our strategy. But I was a closeted single mom and did not bring any of that to the table. And at one moment, one of the diversity council members, shereka, walks into my office, picks up a picture from my desk, hands it to me and says oh, karen, you're a single mom. There are pictures all over your desk of you and a little boy and no man. You are asking us to be vulnerable so we can tap into our personal experiences to inform the strategy, and not once did you mention what's going on for you. Executives like you are afraid to be who you are at work, and if you're afraid, we're afraid. The strategy we're building is incomplete, and you know it. And the thing is she was 100% right, and so we went.

Karin Hurt: 3:53

I came out to the council and I told them what was going on. They're like we know Sharika already told us. Then we went back, though, and we enhanced the strategy, which had executives showing up in all of our locations, being vulnerable, listening to people's stories, and that strategy had such an impact on our employee engagement, and I am so grateful for Sharika because if she had not called me out A I mean, it totally changed the way I led from there on out. I led with authenticity. It changed the way I led from there on out. I led with authenticity. It changed the way the strategy went and, most importantly, it really changed how I teach and work with leaders all over the world, because I really believe in that authenticity and never ask your team to do something you're unwilling to do.

John Neral: 4:40

Oh well, first of all, we all need a Sharika in our lives, right? We need someone to call us out on that. And secondly, what a great lesson to make sure that we're putting ourselves out there and not protecting ourselves when we're asking our team to do something else.

Karin Hurt: 4:59

Yeah.

John Neral: 5:08

Yeah, yeah. So, karen, we know a lot has changed in this world over the last four years. It's almost. It boggles my mind when I talk about this, because we start thinking about post-pandemic and how much things have changed compared to where they were three and a half four years ago. What do you think or what are you seeing specifically? Is the status of remote work moving forward into 2025?

Karin Hurt: 5:34

The status of will there be more or less? Or the status of how people handle it. You know it's, it's really interesting. We are seeing such a, you know, at the beginning of the pandemic right, everybody's like, oh, immediate pivot to seeing such a. You know, at the beginning of the pandemic right, everybody was like, oh, immediate pivot to work from home, you know, and people were so focused on making people feel safe, making people, you know, accommodating and all of that.

Karin Hurt: 5:55

And then we saw this reverse back to for many companies if I can't see you, I can't control you, and so and I'm working with this prospect right now and they've just sorry, where they're mandatory, bringing people back because of real estate issues, because they don't want empty, and I'm like that is not a reason to put people back. What are you going to do with the people while they're there? So I think that you're going to continue to see companies really think about their strategies and being more. What I'm hopeful is that they will be more deliberate in making the right choices and saying when we are together, what are we doing and how are we making the best use of those times?

Karin Hurt: 6:41

And hopefully, this is my real wish for the future is that people will not just make these decisions with financial you know. Oh, it's cheaper to have people working from home. We don't have to have people fly in for these meetings, we can just do a Zoom. But what I am finding is when people do occasionally bring people together, even if they're in remote, and they use that time really deliberately, well, I'm sure you see this too. It is magic and people are so thirsty for that human level connection. So what do I think will happen? I think some companies will get it and they will make a very deliberate strategy that is human centered and then makes sense for the business needs and for the business needs and for the human needs. And I think you will see some companies just drive to the bottom line and do whatever is the cheapest thing they could do, and I think you're going to see a competitive differentiator of the ones that get this right.

John Neral: 7:39

It's an interesting point and when you think about how people are coming back together, be it for that in-person meeting, whether it be every six months, every quarter, whatever it is how people are showing up and how they're communicating, both remotely or virtually versus in-person, is really where part of your expertise comes into play here. What are some of the things that people need to be aware of in terms of building those relationships and their communication when they are back in the room all together with everybody?

Karin Hurt: 8:21

Yeah, so two things here. The one thing you know I make a habit of and you know, before we start, you're like what is your intention? Right? That was a very centering question. You asked me what is your intention for this conversation, and I think that before you enter any room, you know a meeting room, a Zoom room, a Teams room, a real room in person. When you walk into that room, say what is my, how do I want to show up as a human in this room in terms of results and relationships and we call that landing in the, and you know, but I think it's hard to do because you're zooming from meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting and you don't have that time to center and so really to take a moment and say how am I showing up and what is the outcome, what do I want people to think, feel or do as a result of this conversation with me? What is the greater impact that my words that I'm about to say are going to have on the results that we're doing and the relationships that we're building? How do I show up in this moment with confidence and humility? It's like and I know that sounds like a lot of things, but if you just take a beat and close your eyes for one minute before you log on, I think that can make a big difference.

Karin Hurt: 9:32

The other thing that I'm really seeing is that we call this in our book, our new book, powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict. We talk about conflict cocktails and that post-pandemic. We are seeing not only more conflict, but we're seeing a new breed of conflict that is more complex and you know it's. People are working from home, but they're still dealing with mental health challenges and they've got all these lingering issues that are going on and unclear expectations and managers who don't haven't been trained in the skills to deal with these new complex work environments. We've got global matrix teams where people are working together and they hardly ever see each other Like that is complex, and so giving yourself some grace and say this is complex. And so what are the skills that I need?

Karin Hurt: 10:21

And you know we talk about four dimensions of collaboration that are so vital, but I think in remote teams, the two that are the most important are connection and clarity. And you know, are we really connected as human beings? And then do we have real clear expectations of what success looks like and how we're going to work with one another and most of the conflict I'm seeing right now in remote teams is coming from one of those two things. I don't know you, so I don't trust you, or I think we have. These are my expectations, but we've never said them out loud. Like I think you should have your camera on during our one-on-one and you think, well, no, I've got Zoom fatigue. I'm not doing that and we're in a conflict. But we never said it out loud and we just have these invisible expectations of one another.

John Neral: 11:12

I appreciate you sharing those things because it starts giving us some examples about where conflict lies right and what people are feeling conflicted about. I know that I've heard from my listeners, people on my email list and such, and I'll hear things like how do I deal with somebody who is being exceptionally loud in the office Because for the last three years I've had the peace and quiet of my home and my pets and all of a sudden I now have to deal with we'll just call him Steven, let's say who is really loud. Or he coughs and sneezes so loud that I'm like I'm not used to hearing that in my space. Or it's the person that you know. They walk by the cube and someone's got their feet on their desk and their shoes are off and they're like this isn't home. Why are you behaving this way? What are some of the things you're seeing that people are having conflict around in the workplace right now?

Karin Hurt: 12:12

Yeah, I mean. So I think that part of it. So that's an interesting like, when someone is coughing too loud, what are you going to do? Right, you're not going to, and so part of that is, how do you just get over some of that stuff? I honestly, you know, sweat the important stuff and the other stuff, like his feet on his desk. It's disgusting, but it's not on my desk, you know, and so you know what's up?

John Neral: 12:39

It better not be Right.

Karin Hurt: 12:42

So my pet peeve is airplanes, when they just sit next to me in the airplane.

John Neral: 12:45

Oh, you and me both, uh-huh.

Karin Hurt: 12:49

But you know, but you know what I mean Like. So save your conflict for the things that matter. Right, and part of it is really what are our clear expectations and so you can go and you can have conversations with. We want to even an example that you're giving here. I want to make sure that this is a really comfortable work environment for all of us. What does success look like for our cohabitation here? Right For us to be able to live and work together in this environment, and what are the rules of the road? One good conversation about expectations can prevent 14, why didn't you do it this way? Conversations right and so that is where I would start is not just being passive, aggressively, you know, annoyed at people, but if it's really, if it's something that's really important, have the conversation with one another.

John Neral: 13:44

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John Neral: 14:41

Now let's dive back into the episode. So for having that conversation, we know there needs to be an entry point into that conversation and for many mid-career professionals who have huge hearts and they care deeply about people, they want to avoid conflict at all costs, right? So they're looking for that entry point in terms of having that conversation. In terms of having that conversation and admittedly, and we've seen this as well, not everybody gets great communication training when they move into a leadership or management role within an organization. So how do you help people start the conversation that everyone wants to avoid?

Karin Hurt: 15:30

Yeah. So the first conversation you need to have is with yourself. Okay, and I would ask these questions why does what you have to say matter? What's at stake if you stay silent? What's at stake for your relationship? What's at stake for your integrity? What's at stake for the work that you're doing together for the project?

Karin Hurt: 15:53

And then, when we ask this in our training programs, all the time we ask people to think about a conflict conversation that they're avoiding, and then we say imagine you've had the conversation. Now you may not have gotten exactly what you wanted, but you have been heard. How do you feel? And we say everybody put your fingers on the keyboard. How do you feel been heard? How do you feel and we say everybody put your fingers on the keyboard? How do you feel? Relief, relief, relief, relief, relief, relief. Everybody says relieved. Well, that's what I want for your listeners too. I want that relief, the less stress.

Karin Hurt: 16:27

You know, the other day, right before the book had launched, I had this thing that I do once a quarter with one of our clients and I go and I do office hours in one of their headquarters locations. So, basically, if you know, like Sharon, coach, sharon, from, anyway, lasso, that psychologist right, it's like that, so like Ted Lasso, so like I am there and people come in so you can imagine I hear all the conflicts and all the things about everybody. So this one guy comes in. He's like in his mid-50s, right, so mid-career. He comes racing into the office and he's like Karen, do you have that new book in your purse? Because I just saw it on David David's, my husband and co-author's signature and I need that book right now. And I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Karin Hurt: 17:07

I said, well, it's not out yet, but sit down, what's going on? And he just went crazy about this other person who I knew and she doesn't care about me and she doesn't care about this business. And she did it and she's you know she's evil. And I knew she cared deeply about the business. I knew her intentions were good, right, so I gave him a couple of powerful phrases and I said go have the conversation.

Karin Hurt: 17:34

He came back two hours later and he's like you know what we want? Exactly the same thing. She wasn't trying to screw me over. And he's like you know how many months I've been doing on this, three months. Do you know what my wife is about? Sick of it Like. She's like well, you just like talk to the hand at dinner when I want to come home. And he's like and I don't sleep. All it took was a like 20 minute conversation to get on the same page. Now, once you realize that you have good intentions I mean they're not going to resolve all that it's still a differences of opinion about how, but if you believe somebody has your best interest at heart and you want the same things, right, it's a lot easier to really begin the conversation he talked about and it lends to the title of your book as well Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict.

John Neral: 18:27

What are some of those powerful phrases that can help the listeners today, enhance their communication and relationships?

Karin Hurt: 18:34

Yeah, so in the book we have over 300 powerful phrases and the idea is it's really the table of contents is really written so that you can go to an ACE, acute conflict emergency like somebody stole my idea, right, my boss is a micromanager, I'm dealing with conflict in a matrix team and go to that chapter and get the powerful phrases that you need. But there are 12 GOATs, greatest of all time powerful phrases, and so they're aligned with four dimensions of collaborative conversations. So I mentioned two of them. Of collaborative conversations. So I mentioned two of them connection and clarity. So connection are we connected as human beings? And so one of my favorite Goat powerful phrases for connection is I really care about. And then you insert the thing that you genuinely care about I really care about you, I really care about this project, I really care about our work together, I really care about you, I really care about this project, I really care about our work together, I really care about our customer, whatever it is, and I'm confident we can find a solution we can work with here. So if you can start a conversation that way, you're immediately creating connection. Another powerful phrase for connection is simply tell me more. So if somebody comes in really ticked off and you don't get defensive, the first thing you say is oh, wow, it sounds like you're really upset. Can you tell me more about how you're feeling when people feel heard? People scream, either metaphorically or real, because they don't feel hurt. So once they feel hurt, you will de-escalate the conversation. So those are some connection ones. My favorite clarity one is what would a successful outcome do for you? Now, this is a great coaching question is what does success look like? What does successful outcome do for you? Takes that a level deeper, because now you're getting to motivation. So say, you and I are working on a project and we know what the success looks like for the project. But the project is due at the end of the week and I say what would a successful outcome do for you? And you're like you know, karen, I got to tell you I've worked like 60 hours every week for the last three weeks and I am tired. And what a successful outcome would do for me is that we are going to be done by five o'clock on Friday so I can take my partner out for dinner. I'm like, okay, that's good data to have, right. And then I say you know what a successful outcome would do for me. I've been trying to convince my boss that I'm really good at critical thinking around this topic, and so what success looks like is that when we present this information, I get to do some of the presenting so that I look, I get his attention that I've been trying to get. Well, if we both know that we can help each other, right, like I'm going to work faster, you're going to give me a chance to have the microphone when we do the thing. But most of the time people don't have that conversation. They go in with these expectations and then like, why is she taking so long? I really want to get out of here at five o'clock, but you never told me. Yeah, so those are.

Karin Hurt: 21:35

And then curiosity and commitment are the next two. And so curiosity is where you are. Are we genuinely interested in one another's perspective and what's possible, you know? And then so asking some, asking curiosity questions, like you know what? What does success look like from your perspective? What? What do you think we should do? Next is another curiosity what's one next step we could take here? And then, finally, commitment, and this is where you're moving towards a shared agreement. If you've ever been in a conflict that it feels like Groundhog Day. We thought we agreed, but we didn't. Then you get to commitment, and so that's where you're having powerful phrases that actually move towards. What's one next step we can agree on here?

John Neral: 22:21

Okay. So connection, clarity, curiosity and commitment, those are your four dimensions. I think was the word you used right. So they're the four dimensions for all of these powerful phrases and things like that. Can you talk with us a little bit about tone and delivery and how that can either help or hinder these kinds of conversations?

Karin Hurt: 22:52

Yeah, 100%. It's the body language, it's your facial expression and it's your tone of voice tone of voice, you know. So if you go and say any of these goats could sound like they are sarcastic, passive, aggressive comments, if you are saying them in a sarcastic tone of voice. So that's why this conversation, you have to set your intention first, that you really want it right. So that's the first thing. The other thing that I would say is your body language, your face. For me, it's always the face that is the problem.

Karin Hurt: 23:26

And when David and I so we wrote our first book together before and got to know each other as friends, then fell in love, then merged our businesses together and started like doing all these presentations together for the first time. And we you know, both were used to running our own businesses. We had so much conflict at the beginning. But what I found was I would say the words, because I'm a professional, I know the right words. But at one point we were in a.

Karin Hurt: 23:54

He did something in front of a client. He made, I thought, a really poor choice and, David, I didn't say a word. But he could see the look on my face and he pulled me out in the hallway and David, I didn't say a word, but he could see the look on my face and he pulled me out in the hallway. He goes. I understand why you're pissed, and you're right, but if you do not change the look on your face, we are going to lose this client and that's the hardest thing. But it's easier when you're remote, because right now I could look at my face and see how I'm doing. Yeah, and so I think you know that you, if that is a challenge for you, use the tools and see how are you showing up in these situations we communicate electronically, be it through Teams, instant message, email text.

John Neral: 24:50

How do you help people monitor or just basically check their tone in that level of communication as well?

Karin Hurt: 24:56

Well, it's interesting. So I just came back from keynoting the HR Malaysia Tech Conference and this was one of the main topics that I talked about, which is pick the right medium for the message. So Marshall McLuhan 1960, said the medium is the message, and it is more true now than it ever was. And you see this all over TikTok and people saying, oh, my boss just fired me over Slack right. So the more intense the message, the more emotionally charged the message is. You've got to pick the highest bandwidth that you can, and I was at Verizon for 20 years.

Karin Hurt: 25:34

I led a variety of executives and I got on a lot of airplanes to go have difficult conversations with people. And people are like I cannot believe you flew all this way to have this conversation. I care about you that much to do this Now. That's not always feasible, but the technology has changed. At least you can turn your freaking camera on. Yeah, right, and so that's the first thing I would say. And then the second thing I would say is read it out loud. Read it out loud to yourself. I just did this.

Karin Hurt: 26:04

I am very mad right now with a strategic partner and I'm a very trusting, very trusting, human-centered, collaborative, partnering person and every couple of years, somebody really takes advantage of that. Somebody really takes advantage of that, and it's a big deal. It's like a $40,000 thing that I got screwed over on and I am really upset. Well, first thing I did is not send the note. Last night I slept on it. The next thing I did is I wrote it and I read it out loud. The third thing I did was send it to David and had somebody else read it, and he's like that's exactly what we need to say, you know, and not I mean I could just have ignored it and like there's nothing I can do, there's nothing she can do to repair it, it's over. But I had to feel for myself like I cannot be somebody who talks about workplace conflict and not say this is the impact that your actions have had on us, right, and so I think that's part of it is just is go slow enough to get it right.

John Neral: 27:11

She hasn't written back, though, so so, before we start wrapping up here, I have to ask you, given all of your expertise in communication and conflict management, how much pressure do you feel, sometimes like you have to have it perfect or have it right?

Karin Hurt: 27:33

It is. So you know where I really feel it is. I really feel it with our team, you know, and I think there is a tendency and I see this with executives all the time the more the deeper relationship, the more trust is in a relationship, the lazier we get. And you know, like executives will say to one another oh well, I can, I can speak that to him that way because he gets paid the big bucks and I've known him for 15 years and I worry about that with me and I sometimes really screw that up. Like sometimes my worst communication is with David and you know, because I'm like, well, you know we're married and he and so that's the that. So that's where I think, you know, I feel a lot of pressure to get it right and I don't always get it right. Yeah, we're human.

John Neral: 28:19

Yeah, we're human. That's that's, that's part of. So, karen, this has been such a wonderful conversation. I appreciate you walking us through your book and all the tips and everything like that, but if you could leave the listeners with one tip or piece of advice to help them build their mid-career GPS, what would that be today?

Karin Hurt: 28:44

be the leader you want your boss to be. You can learn as much from a good boss and a bad boss, but imagine what is the ideal boss and then work to be that person.

John Neral: 28:59

Give us one little tip to help them do that.

Karin Hurt: 29:03

The first thing that I would say is to land in the end. Show up with confidence and humility the confidence to own your strength, to stand up for what matters, to speak the truth. And the humility to surround yourself with people who will challenge you, to know your vulnerabilities and to admit when you're wrong. Land in the end.

John Neral: 29:20

Oh, so good, so good. Well, thank you for that. So, karen, if people want to learn more about you and your husband's book, I'm going to turn the mic over to you. Share all the great things where people can get the book, find you and connect with you.

Karin Hurt: 29:35

Okay, so the work is called, the book is called Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict and our website is letsgrowleaderscom. We write a weekly blog, David has a podcast. I do an asking for a friend show. Lots of free ways to connect with us and since this podcast is coming out on October 1st, it's actually this book is available for Kindle on Kindle sale for $2.99 from September 30th through October 6th, so the timing is perfect. If you want to check it out, that's an easy way to do it.

John Neral: 30:12

I will make sure all of that is in the show notes. But, karen Hurt, thank you so much for sharing all this wonderful information and being a great guest on the Mid-Career GPS podcast today.

Karin Hurt: 30:22

Absolutely my pleasure. Thank you so much.

John Neral: 30:25

So, my friends, if there's one big takeaway from my conversation with Karen, I want to leave you with this. How much care did she communicate to us in terms of dealing with the workplace conflict and having these conversations with people, whether they're colleagues, people on your team, your direct reports or even your boss? The intention behind all of it was to show up from a place of care and concern, but to do it with the confidence to have a conversation with the intention of whatever that end result is that you want. End result is that you want. She talked about four key dimensions about clarity, connection, curiosity and being committed. So pick one of those. Pick one of those today. And what could you work on? Go get her book. And until next time my friends, remember this you will build your mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time, and how you show up matters. Make it a great rest of your day.

John Neral: 31:32

Thank you for listening to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. Make sure to follow on your favorite listening platform and, if you have a moment, I'd love to hear your comments on Apple Podcasts. Visit JohnNarrowcom for more information about how I can help you build your mid-career GPS or how I can help you and your organization with your next workshop or public speaking event. Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and follow me on social at John Narrow Coaching. I look forward to being back with you next week. Until then, take care and remember how we show up matters. Thank you.