261: Building Your LinkedIn Network with Jemima Attanasio

Jemima Atanasio is Senior Director of Development at Fordham College at Rose Hill. Jemima takes us through her transformative journey from the hustle of special events fundraising to the more balanced realm of major gifts work. Discover how pivotal moments in 2016, amidst significant political changes, led her to reassess her career and the value she brings to her role. She shares the importance of cross-collaboration, her love for Pink's music, and the powerful community she has cultivated on LinkedIn.

Learn how Jemima has harnessed the power of LinkedIn to create a vibrant, supportive community, especially in the context of philanthropy and large-donor fundraising. By blending personal interests like music and photography with professional insights, she has engaged her network in authentic, meaningful ways. Jemima emphasizes the crucial role of authenticity and clear intentions in building the know, like, and trust factor that strengthens professional relationships.

Discover practical strategies to incorporate more of your authentic self into your career and online presence to build a successful and engaged network on LinkedIn. Jemima shares actionable tips on how to show up genuinely in your professional life and community-building efforts. Find out how consistent, genuine participation on social media can craft a compelling narrative over time.

Connect with Jemima on LinkedIn.

Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Mid-Career Career Challenges
• 14:54 Building Community and Connection on LinkedIn
• 23:08 Discovering Authenticity and Community on LinkedIn
• 35:42 Embracing Authenticity in Career Development

Transcript

John Neral: 0:00

Imagine working a full-time job, raising your family, all while diligently trying to find the balance between your home life and growing your career. Sound familiar? Where do you find the energy and motivation to keep you and your career moving forward? Well, my guest today is someone who's found that secret and she'll share her experiences with you today. In a few moments, you will meet Jemima Attanasio. Jemima is the Senior Director of Development at Fordham College at Rose Hill. She's here to talk to you about why she values cross-collaboration, the power of Pink's music, and how she found a wonderfully supportive and engaging community in her LinkedIn network and you can too. So let's get started.

John Neral: 1:00

Hello, my friends, this is the Mid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm your John Neral. I help mid-career professionals like you find a job they love, or love the job they have, using my proven four-step formula. I've known Jemima Atanasio for a few years now, and she is one of those people whose posts I see on LinkedIn and I have to stop and look whenever I see it. Her posts are thoughtful, unique and personal, all while being professional and engaging. It's one of the lessons you'll hear from her about how she found success posting content like this on LinkedIn and how it has helped her build her community and network, all while building her mid-career GPS. This is a practical and fun conversation, and one which I am sure you will absolutely find relatable, so it is my pleasure to introduce you to Jemima Attanasio. Hey there, Jemima, welcome to the podcast. I'm excited for our conversation today.

Jemima Attanasio: 2:05

Thank you so much, John, for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

John Neral: 2:09

Same. So we've set an intention today that you and I are going to have a lot of fun in this conversation. There's so many things I'm excited to talk to you about today but, to help the listeners out, you've got some interesting perspectives on this whole mid-career moment and mid-career journey and I'm wondering if you can share with us a particular event that you have just found really shaped and defined a big part of your mid-career GPS.

Jemima Attanasio: 2:40

Thanks so much, john. I've listened to your work for a long time and I've been really interested and fascinated by this moment. I think it happens in stages and for me, I'm a mom, a mom of three. I've been working for my whole adult life and my career, with all three of those children as part of it. But at each stage I've come to moments that have that mid-career sort of feel to it and I wanted to choose one that kind of shifted me. So I'll give you a little background, your listeners a little background.

Jemima Attanasio: 3:15

As you might tell from most of my accent, I grew up in the UK and I have been in the United States for nearly 20 years now, and when I moved here initially I moved here with my husband, who is American, and we moved here to New York City and took my first job, was just newly married and we were a young couple here in New York. We had our first child and I started to sort of say what is my career going to look like? How are we going to do that with a little one? We had some shifts. At that moment that happened. I took a change of career. I work in fundraising and I started my career in the first 10 years in special events, which involves a lot of late nights and a lot of event work, long hours and so on. You can imagine, john, it's a different kind of life. So as I moved into being a parent, I shifted more in fundraising to what we call major gifts work, which is much more nine to five, a lot more work one-on-one with donors and supporters of our organization. And I had moved into that and started my progression through career moments into a different sort of level of middle management kind of moment and I started to think, you know, I wanted to progress up, to have teams under me and be more of a manager. I looked at the different career projection here in the States and I also, with my British background, was working actually with a British institution at the time, and so I started to look across the ocean back to London to see what things were there. Now this was actually in 2016, which has a very similar kind of feel now to 2024.

Jemima Attanasio: 4:56

Election season, a lot of change and a lot of sort of pendulum swings happening, and I was in a situation I'll just tell you a very quick little story happening, and I was in a situation. I'll just tell you a very quick little story with some donors here in the States, but with the president of my institution, and we were there in this meeting and each of them were asking each other kind of what was going on in their own countries and nobody had any answers. It was the strangest moment where I was sort of sitting as a thing on the wall in this meeting and had like no idea of these senior people who had, you know, they were at that management level, that senior level, and had like really no sense of what was going on and I actually was thinking very seriously interviewing for jobs back in London. In the end those didn't work out, but I had similar conversations with them in London when Brexit happened, which was just again give your listeners a little background on this.

Jemima Attanasio: 5:53

Brexit was the vote in 2016, summer of 2016, where the UK voted to leave the European Union.

Jemima Attanasio: 6:00

Obviously, this is a long historical issue and lots of politics behind that, but for me it was a big moment where I said, if I'm going to move my family back to the UK and to be in a position there where I'm working there and building my career at this mid-career moment there, if the institution that I'm working for doesn't have some answers or some plans or some thoughts about how this is going to affect what they do and what their sort of mission is and so on, then it's going to be really hard for me to kind of bring my value to that place.

Jemima Attanasio: 6:36

So I made a decision there. I had other opportunities opened up here in New York and I stayed here in New York and you know, sitting at this point in my career so mid-career now, 21 years through my career, I have this sort of moment now, which is nearly, you know, eight years ago, where I can see that there was a shift, a change that mentally I had to make a decision one way or the other, but it was also totally out of my control. It was one of those situations where and I actually realized that you were talking about this very recently on your podcast like how little control you really have over what you do, over your career and how. But those things that you do control are smaller decisions sometimes, those little steps that you can make, and for me it was a moment where I had to say I think this is where I need to stay right now.

John Neral: 7:28

So Jemima, let me just jump in here for a second, because what you're hitting on is such a big part of this whole mid-career moment, which is where do I fit? And when we think about fit in terms of not just our professional life but our personal life as well, you and your husband have three small children. You're raising them. There's fit in terms of where do you live and where do you work, and when mid-career professionals are struggling to wonder what that fit specifically looks like for them, how did you get clarity around knowing? For right now, this is the decision I want to make, because this fit seems right.

Jemima Attanasio: 8:21

I think it's a really good question. I think it has been a little bit of step by step, as I said, also kind of crawling, sometimes taking those things one day at a time. I think what often happens when we're not sure where we're going or we're not sure what's happening around us, like I said, we kind of feel this powerlessness around some of those things. So what I tried to do more was ground myself and try to say so who am I and where, where do I come from and how do I feel really centered in what I do? That is on two sides, both professional and a personal level, and I think one of the things that has really grounded me throughout my life, actually right from the start, is music. It was something that I did a lot of. I play the piano and I sing my two instruments, my two passions, and as a teenager I played the piano constantly. I would sing along to the music that I was playing. But then I sang a lot in college and I did a lot of work with other people, and those two things have kind of come together in my life at lots of different moments.

Jemima Attanasio: 9:37

But I think what you're helping me also remember is that each time I've really struggled with something that kind of didn't make sense or organizationally something that wasn't fitting, I've often looked for music or the arts particularly. But even just that music element, like what does this institution have that speaks to me there? I've worked in the ballet, at the New York City Ballet. I've worked for institutions that have very important music departments. The universities I've worked at have really strong arts and liberal arts kind of perspectives in them too.

Jemima Attanasio: 10:13

But that music every time I would sort of lose a sense of where I was going. I remember to put my headphones back on and I remember to put my music back in my ears and that would actually help me ground myself and feel myself. And I remember this vividly at a couple of points where you know I might have very simply lost an iPod or forgot where you know I put the CD like years and years ago. Or now you know, you know had a new phone and forgotten to download the music that I really wanted onto my phone and I've had weeks or months without that music and it kind of takes away something from what I am. So I think something of that, the organ piece of that, comes in there too.

John Neral: 11:01

Where's the most interesting or coolest place you've ever sung?

Jemima Attanasio: 11:09

I've sung in some beautiful cathedrals in europe, um florence and uh. We went to venice and the gaudi cathedral in barcelona was amazing. We didn't get to sing in the cathedral, upstairs okay sang because they're still working on that it's a hundred and something year project. Well, we sang downstairs in the basement and it was just incredible, oh my gosh. But there's something also about that sorry, just on the kind of the level of when you sing in a group and I think this comes back to that organizational fit and where you you come from there um is that you're listening to other people. You're listening to the people around you. You're hearing that feedback in the sort of just pure sound sense of that. But you're also hearing how you come together differently and in different lines, but then you start and end at the same point. There's a lot of synergy, I think, to how organizational cultures come together through music as well.

John Neral: 12:12

Without question. The parallels are so profound in that regard because for you as an artist, as a musician, those things are absolutely important, right? It's where that synergy and that harmony come into play in terms of where you get to do your best work. So if you were showing up in these situations where this is a particular value of yours, right Harmonious collaboration, very direct leadership, clear rules and expectations If you're actively job seeking and you have those values, what advice can you share with the listeners in terms of how you would assess organizational fit in the job search and, specifically, what questions you might ask during a job interview that may help you determine whether or not that organization's values align with yours?

Jemima Attanasio: 13:19

That's great. That's a really great um question to to even consider um. I often ask questions about cross-collaboration who else do you work with at the institution um, which departments you know pop up again and again, or where would you like to see this role have more impact? Um, um. So you know a lot of the institutions.

Jemima Attanasio: 13:45

I've come to um as a um, as a professional. I've actually often been the the first person taking this job or a new, revitalized version of this role, um, and so there's often a lot of expectation around that Um, but there's also a lot of unknowns. There are a lot of people who may want or see things forward, but they don't necessarily know how to get there, and I think on that when you're in an interview. So I think you want to ask good questions and ask them for specific examples, if they can give a specific example of a department or an event that they've worked on, or some kind of team that they had, a specific project that needed collaboration across different departments. I think a lot of work, you know, tends to be very straight down the line, but if you can be as an individual both an individual and a team player thinking more broadly, that can help find more collaboration opportunities as well.

John Neral: 14:54

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John Neral: 16:03

She was a guest of ours as well, a guest of mine several years ago, and so one of the things I have come to know about you, both from our conversations but also in looking at what you post and share about on LinkedIn, is this sense of community. And in your work in philanthropy and doing this large donor fundraising type work, the idea of building those kinds of connections and building that sense of community is undeniably important for the work that you do, that's right.

John Neral: 16:43

You and I both know there are a lot of people who are. They have a LinkedIn profile. They kind of have it because they feel like they should have it and they're really anxious about what they could post, or even what to start posting about. Talk to us a little bit about how this sense of community drives, how you've built your network on LinkedIn.

Jemima Attanasio: 17:15

So I think that there are two parts, or two or three different parts to how I approach LinkedIn. But I think one of the things is that I see it as a place to build community and to keep that really broad sense of connection amongst my former colleagues, people I've worked with or would like to work with, and also just a general sense of what's going on in my industry but also outside of my industry. So it's when I, when I post on LinkedIn, I've actually gravitated to a few different areas. So we've talked a little bit about music and that's something that you know is just top of my list always. And and really I can dig very deep there I have been a photographer, my for my whole life and I love to post photographs.

Jemima Attanasio: 18:07

But I don't just post a photograph and say here's a beautiful sunset or here's a tree or flower. I post a lot of pictures of flowers, but what I try to do is draw those cross connections. Sometimes they might seem a little far distant from each other, but by using two or three very synergistic kind of ideas you can see in, for example, a rosebush growing and blooming, like the same sense of, for me, major gift fundraising or donors in community growing and building from, you know, a small blossom to a very beautiful bush and I think that that has that also sort of maps into LinkedIn generally is that you start something very small and it's the sort of place that, yes, it exists, like you know, kind of stays out there in the world, but it's also you're building on something all the time, like you're building on the ideas With the music. I can go through a whole album of different songs and have different things to say about it each time, and I think there's a lot of creativity around that as well. So there's some different ways that it's helped me, but each of those things draws different parts of the community.

Jemima Attanasio: 19:23

I'll see some people John, you're one of the wonderful ones who's tagging me and working in the comments, and that's another area you can really work. You can really like use in a very deep way is to connect with people in the comments and kind of say to them oh, I saw this, it's so interesting, I'd love to know more about this. Or, you know, tell me where you're going. What, where, how? Why does this mean so much to you? Questions, lots of good questions.

John Neral: 19:52

I can't help but think that there is someone listening to this conversation, jemima, who is hearing what you just said and saying to themselves that sounds like a lot of personal stuff and I don't think LinkedIn is really the place to be posting pictures of flowers and music and stuff like that. But you found a way to pull your network together around these things because they connect with it and they, like we always say it builds that know, like and trust factor. What would you say to somebody who is concerned about posting something a little quote unquote, personal on LinkedIn, but still find a way to make it professional and uplifting.

Jemima Attanasio: 20:43

Mm-hmm.

Jemima Attanasio: 20:45

I think that it's joining it together, being clear about your intentions, some of my posts, I definitely am very clear that this is because it was something that I wanted to share, that I felt that other people, you know, because it was something that I wanted to share, that I felt that other people would benefit from, whether it's personal or not, we bring a lot of ourselves authentically in different ways.

Jemima Attanasio: 21:09

Everybody has different ways of doing that and I think that we're able to speak to each other without, you know, without too much you know judgment of that sort of thing, you know, with kind of a sense of grace to each other as well. I think, you know, for me, you know, I tie a lot of my posts also to you know, I'm posting pictures of the campus at Fordham and different parts of the work that I do as well. So there's a, there's a really there's a sort of sense of a real, a full person behind a lot of what I post as well. So, and I think that, again, you know, with community, with organizational values, I think that those are things that genuinely people are interested in. We spend a lot of our time at work and we spend a lot of our time being. You know real people at work as well.

Jemima Attanasio: 22:01

So, I think that it's. Yes, I think that there are times where it goes over a boundary and I think you want to kind of be careful of that and sure. But also it's also a place where you can kind of test it out and see how comfortable you are with the things you want to say as well.

John Neral: 22:16

So, for the listener's benefit, you and I are recording this episode on July 3rd.

Jemima Attanasio: 22:21

And.

John Neral: 22:21

I share the date with them because you shared with me earlier today that you had done a post on LinkedIn recently where you tagged Fordham in it and they reacted in a particular way that sounded like it surprised you a little bit, can you tell us a little bit more about the essence of the post and what Fordham did.

Jemima Attanasio: 22:45

Sure. So you know, as an employee colleague here at Fordham, we had a retreat last week for our development team we're about 100 strong and got together and had a long day of shared learning, shared, you know, community spirit, again, that same sense of being together. I posted about it in a you know celebratory way to you know kind of put lift that up for the community, and often I do post, you know, fordham things that are around that we have a large university, lots of students, lots of community members who are often posting as well. But it happened that the university tagged my post this time and so of course it landed in our university feed. My feed, my network, is currently just over a thousand members, but the university feed is 150,000 members, is currently just over a thousand members, but the university feed is 150,000 members, so the followers have a lot more. There are a lot more people seeing impressions of those at that post. So it lifted up right away into lots of people's feed. You know lots of people were liking that post and it got three or four times the amount well, over 4,000 posts impressions on that post.

Jemima Attanasio: 23:58

So it just it shows again that benefit of sharing common experience and sharing something that you know can be celebrated and really lifted up. And then it's part of like the community spirit too that lots of people you know also liked it, wanted to learn more. You know a few people did also write into that. I also get and I think this is something that's very helpful for people who don't use LinkedIn or sort of like you said listeners who may think oh, you know, it's just. I mean, I get a lot of people who reach out to me both through direct message and then just find me through email or, you know more, just generally in person around the university and will lift up the work that I've done offline, totally offline. So that's a really important part of it too. It's just one piece of the puzzle.

John Neral: 24:47

Yeah, and how did you feel when you saw that Fordham tagged your post and shared it with their 150,000 person network?

Jemima Attanasio: 24:58

It was wonderful, it was very exciting. I was really because I had been tagging the university a lot and I just, you know, always hope that, you know, other people learn about the things we're doing. It's part of my role to celebrate the community as well, but it was really exciting to see it up there and, of course, recognize that you know, a lot of people benefit from this place too. You know, my one of my hopes always is that I help other people, and that's really one of the things I like to do the most. So this, I think, just I hope, helps the university too, as well as as all the people here within it.

John Neral: 25:32

Yeah, and it goes without saying, you really love your job and you love where you work and everything.

John Neral: 25:38

So it makes it a little easier in that regard to kind of tag your employer in that regard without any expectation that they're going to repost or reshare that kind of post from you as well.

John Neral: 25:52

But what I want to offer people who are listening today is that the message here is be yourself, be authentic. If you're going to post on LinkedIn, do it in a way of serving your network, regardless of whether you have 50 people who are currently following you or 500,000 people following you. Do it in a way to kind of serve your network and see what the reactions are. Right, you and I both know we post stuff on LinkedIn all the time and some stuff lands and some stuff doesn't. And what a lot of people don't understand is that there's so many algorithms at play in terms of where LinkedIn decides to give you their blessing and kind of move your post a little bit forward in that regard. But when you show up every day from that intention of how can I serve, how can I help the people in my network, it speaks volumes about the brand and the quality that your feed has and why people would naturally resonate toward that.

Jemima Attanasio: 26:54

Yeah, definitely, and I think that you know that comes across for me. You know a lot of organizations are very complicated places. They're big places, they have even small. You know I've worked at nonprofits that are one to two people, you know, all the way up to thousands and thousands of people Like there are lots of reasons and different parts to the organization and sometimes when you do something every day, showing up, like you just said, you know, in different pieces, it just enables that whole story to be told. And I think that it's so easy, unfortunately in the world of social media to kind of think it's just one thing and it's kind of here and done. And I think, again, that sort of sense of showing up and presenting different kinds of aspects and different pieces to the puzzle just really helps the overall picture.

John Neral: 27:43

Yeah. So, jemima, we're going to start wrapping up here in a couple of minutes, but I would be remissed if I didn't take a couple of minutes just to talk to you about why Pink's music resonates for you so much, what is so special about her and her music?

Jemima Attanasio: 28:01

Pink is an incredible pop singer. Those of your listeners who have heard her or followed her may have done so for a very long time. I only was introduced to her. I knew one or two of her songs during COVID listening on Pandora, in fact, to general mixes of this kind of music I liked. But I got really into a journey of learning about her and her progression as an artist, her progression as a person, as a mother, I think, also somebody very authentic and very open about the fact that she's quite a complicated person. But I actually one of the most fascinating things about her music and my own journey is that I went backwards through her catalog. So I started in her most recent album that was in 2023 and then went backwards. I'm currently in her album from 2003. I've still got two more albums to go back, but there's something very special about a journey that maps a lot of your own kind of career moments or clarity moments as well.

Jemima Attanasio: 29:08

I think, again, it's a reason that the Mid-Career your GPS podcast actually has a lot of resonance. For me, too is you see bits and pieces of yourself and how you've discovered things and so on, and I think that for me, comes across in Pink. She's also a very deep artist. She actually I mean, she works, she collaborates again somebody who has a very serious sense of a team, people around her, a band, and also she performs live. So how can you? You know these incredible aerial stunts and she's singing live as she does them. So she has a very special kind of talent to be able to do that. I think again, for someone who, like me, presents quite a bit of you know of how I am authentically, that has resonated with me very deeply with me, very deeply, and you've posted some things about her as well, to kind of bring all that out.

John Neral: 30:04

And it's, it's music is one of those things that absolutely bonds us in so many ways and and I think when, when we have something like that that we love and we appreciate and it's that, it's that gift and talent that we have in that regard, it makes life a whole lot more special in that regard, yeah.

Jemima Attanasio: 30:27

And I think it's also that you know, stepping beyond something you know like the day-to-day. You know there's something. Sometimes it's just a little bit more than that. You know you can kind of just be in awe of it, and I think that that is part of it as well. I have a sense of something that's just a little bit you know beyond. You know that you can't quite, it's not quite tangible, and I like that about it.

John Neral: 30:53

I shared this with a friend of mine who is a huge Donna Summer fan but there is a new version of MacArthur Park that is sung by Amber Riley and I forget how many pieces in the orchestra are backing her up, and there's a young guy it's Micah, somebody I can't remember. I can see his face, but the orchestral version of that is so incredibly phenomenal and it's like, yeah, I could listen to that on autoplay just over and over and over again and enjoy that.

Jemima Attanasio: 31:34

Well, I have a pink story for that same thing. She went on um um when her new album launched and her song turbulence and she admitted to the to the broadcaster on the on on the bbc. She had only ever once sung with a full orchestra and they had a full orchestra for her and she sang it, the orchestra and just the piano and her on her singing and it was incredible. It's a very special song. It's um, it's actually um um. When I get there, it's the song that um she wrote really for her father who she'd lost um to cancer a few years ago, and so of course I had a lot of emotion for her. But then to have that song be the one she performed with this orchestra was, I mean, you can watch it live. It'll be recorded from the live performance. It's something really quite special.

John Neral: 32:25

Send me that link please.

John Neral: 32:26

I will do. Yeah, all right, sounds good. So, jemima, we've talked about a lot of things today. We have talked about the whole importance of about finding that organizational fit and how you fit and align with the organization's mission and vision and purpose. We talked about how to assess what that organizational fit may look like. We've also talked about building community and how you do that on LinkedIn. So, as we start wrapping up here, what advice would you give someone listening today to help them build their mid-career GPS to whatever is next for them in their career?

Jemima Attanasio: 33:03

I think there are two or three things, three things that I'd like to share that are really, you know, have been important for me. One is that sense of reflection Like I shared, you know, some of my, you know, in my mid-career moment. Being able to sort of reflect back on what that meant and keep looking back even as you come through into a new stage. That has been really helpful to me.

Jemima Attanasio: 33:28

I think as we journey through mid-career or journey through any of our career, we tend to go really fast and so we kind of jump to the next thing. Particularly if we're moving quite a bit, we get into the new place and we try and learn everything. Reflecting and pausing and taking some more time has always been really helpful. And, on that same note, finding that self you know self care moment, self, you know reflection and what you need out of that, I think is also really important. Those are two things that you know have, just as I've gone through changes have now grounded me again and being in a place, like you said, at Fordham here, where I do feel very comfortable and grounded, they're things that I have been able to really actually kind of dig into deeply and kind of solidify myself.

John Neral: 34:21

I want to thank you for sharing that. I want to thank you for sharing all the great things you shared with us today. So, if people want to connect with you and find you and learn more about you, I'm going to turn the mic over to you. My friend, tell us where people can connect with you.

Jemima Attanasio: 34:34

Thank you so much, john. Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I think that is the best place to find me. I work here at Fordham University, so you can always catch me through the university here as well, find me online. But LinkedIn is the space that I use as my professional as well as personal journey. So my profile, you know under my name, jemima Atanasio, and you know, follow me along. You'll hear about music, about nature, about Fordham and about lots of things in life. So fundraising in the wild hashtag, fundraising in the wild is my cross connection between fundraising and the photography and the music that I put together.

John Neral: 35:13

That's awesome. Well, jemima, I will make sure all of that is in the show notes, but thank you so much. I've been wanting to have this conversation with you for a while, so thanks for being a great guest on the Mid-Career GPS podcast.

Jemima Attanasio: 35:24

Thank you so much for having me. I've been a follower for a long time too, john, so it's been very special to be with you, thank you.

John Neral: 35:30

Same same here. I appreciate that. So, my friends, as we wrap up here, here's the one takeaway I want you to think about when can you be more you? How do you bring more of yourself to work? How do you bring more of yourself into building community? And if you're posting on LinkedIn or engaging with other people's content on LinkedIn, how can you bring more you of that as well? How you make that connection is a big part of how you build your mid-career GPS, and I thank Jemima for adding that special component to this conversation today.

John Neral: 36:06

So until next time, my friends, remember this you will build your mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time, and how you show up matters. Make it a great rest of your day. Make it a great rest of your day. Thank you for listening to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. Make sure to follow on your favorite listening platform and, if you have a moment, I'd love to hear your comments on Apple Podcasts. Visit johnnerrellcom for more information about how I can help you build your mid-career GPS or how I can help you and your organization with your next workshop or public speaking event. Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and follow me on social at John Darrell Coaching. I look forward to being back with you next week. Until then, take care and remember how we show up matters.