The Mid-Career GPS Podcast
How will you figure out what is next for you and your career? Building a Mid-Career GPS to create that next promotion, finding a new job, building your network, and crushing your next interview are just some topics we cover on The Mid-Career GPS Podcast.
John Neral had a mid-career moment that changed his path and direction. Building a Mid-Career GPS helped guide him to create what was next for his career. Now, he’s here to help you do the same. Join him and his guests as they share their stories, strategies, and tips to help you create whatever is next so you can find a job you love or love the job you have.
The Mid-Career GPS Podcast
258: Everyone Deserves a Great Manager with FranklinCovey's Todd Davis
Prepare to unlock the secrets of effective leadership development as we sit down with Todd Davis, senior consultant and thought leader at FranklinCovey. Ever wondered why so many professionals find themselves in leadership roles without the proper training? Through Todd's transformative mid-career experience and his unmatched expertise in human resources and talent development, we'll uncover the essential strategies for balancing empathy and courage, all while navigating the complexities of reporting to younger managers and overcoming mindset barriers.
Imagine leveraging your personal strengths to become an exceptional leader. Todd shares insights from his book, "Everyone Deserves a Great Manager," and emphasizes the role of empathy in fostering productive relationships. Discover the impact of Gallup StrengthsFinder in identifying your unique talents and learn how FranklinCovey’s approach to leadership development can facilitate lasting behavior change to achieve your strategic goals. We'll also explore the common challenges mid-career professionals face when transitioning to managerial roles and the importance of understanding others first.
Effective communication is key, and Todd helps us understand why clear and direct conversations about performance issues are crucial. We delve into the pitfalls of the "empathy sandwich" and the significance of building strong, effective relationships at work. Drawing inspiration from Stephen R. Covey's "Seven Habits of Highly Effective People," this episode is packed with actionable advice on leading with both empathy and courage, ensuring you contribute meaningfully to your organization’s success. Join us for this engaging conversation and transform your leadership journey today!
Connect with Todd Davis.
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Did you know that, on average, you will likely not receive leadership training and development for almost a decade after your first leadership role? This is a powerful moment in my conversation with today's guest, todd Davis. As a mid-career professional, you often wonder how you can bring your big heart into your leadership and take care of your teams and organizations while still finding ways to advance your career. In this episode, todd and I explored the balance between empathy and courage and why focusing on various leadership paradigms that highlight your soft skills is a big key to building your mid-career GPS. Let's get started. Hello, my friends, this is the Mid-Career GPS Podcast and I'm your host, john Neral. I help mid-career professionals like you find a job they love, or love the job they have, using my proven four-step formula. It is great to have you here for another wonderful interview and I've got to share with you. I have been so honored about the guests I've recently had on the show and there are some fantastic guests to come in the next few months and, as crazy as this sounds, I've been planning for the first quarter of 2025 already. So if you've got a topic you would like to hear more about on the podcast or know someone who would be a great guest. There are two ways to reach out to me. One drop me a direct message right there on LinkedIn easy enough to do or you can email me at john@johnneral. com. I'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions, and thanks for continuing to listen to the podcast and sharing this with your network. So now on to today's guest.
John Neral:Todd Davis is a senior consultant and thought leader at FranklinCovey, with over 35 years of experience in human resources, talent development and executive recruiting. Todd spent 27 years as a chief people officer, where he was responsible for global development in over 40 offices, reaching 160 countries. Additionally, he authored and co-authored the bestselling books Get Better 15 Proven Practices to Build Effective Relationships at Work and and I absolutely love this title Everyone Deserves a Great Manager. You're going to get a lot of great takeaways and insights from my conversation, so let's get to it. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Todd Davis. Hey there, todd, welcome to the podcast. It's great to talk to you today. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Todd Davis. Hey there, todd, welcome to the podcast. It's great to talk to you today.
Todd Davis:Thanks for having me, john Great, to be here.
John Neral:So, Todd, you and I have had a chance to talk a little bit over the last couple of months and I'm so excited to bring this conversation to the listeners today.
Todd Davis:But before we get into everything, please tell us us.
Todd Davis:What was your mid-career moment?
Todd Davis:Yeah, you've told me to be prepared for that and I have thought of a few, but one that stands out to me specifically was when I was in a particular role I'll keep it short, but managing a big events center and a lot of things that were to take place there and I had to coordinate different guests that were coming in and small concerts, rock concerts and things like that, and there was a and I was young I was younger, so you say mid-career, but it was early mid-career and there were two people that were in charge of these two events that were butting heads because there had been some miscommunication on who was going to have the central stage on a particular night for rehearsals.
Todd Davis:And I was younger than both of them, much younger than one of them, and I was there walking a very fine line trying to make sure these two didn't blow up because they were both quite hot-headed and we worked out a solution and the more of the two people came to me afterwards and said I got to hand it to you. I don't know that I would have known how to handle that and I'm not sharing that with you, john, to brag, I'm saying. It was that moment that I thought, um, in a, in a humble way okay, you're, you're, you have a gift for understanding others, really understanding others, and then mediating or working through to come up with a good solution.
John Neral:So I reflect on that moment a lot because, regardless of the roles I've been in, that skill set and again I say this with humility, but that skill set has only grown and really served me well and the people I've worked with Well, I appreciate you sharing that story, because it is and sounds very indicative of a lot of the work you do today, especially in terms of not only helping people be better leaders, but helping people be better communicators as well, and so having to diffuse some of those 10 situations I can only imagine is obviously we know it's a much needed skill set in that regard, Todd.
Todd Davis:I appreciate you commenting on it just very quickly. Years later, when I read Now Discover your Strengths and did the Gallup Strengths, finder and empathy came out loud and clear, as my number one, and again all said with humility. But as I read the examples and situations where that comes into play, I thought, oh, this makes so much sense now and again. There are so many strengths I don't have, but that is the one that served me well. Anyway, sorry to interrupt there.
John Neral:No, I'm so glad you brought that up because we've talked so much on the podcast about how we all have skills and gaps to close, but we're far much better served when we really and truly leverage our strengths and we know how powerful Gallup is as a tool in that regard. I shared a little bit in the introduction, but I'd love it if you would just take a quick minute or two and tell us a little more specifically about what FranklinCovey is and the kind of work you do there. So our listeners, who probably have heard FranklinCovey thrown around a little bit in their workplace or maybe had an opportunity to work with someone from there, but tell us specifically, what exactly do you do there?
Todd Davis:Yeah, they probably remember their mom or dad or grandpa had a Franklin day planner. Remember their mom or dad or grandpa had a Franklin Bay Planner. But yeah, franklin Bay is a global company. We specialize in leadership development and performance improvement. What we really do in a nutshell is when achieving your goals requires a change in human behavior. That's what we do. Many tout us as the behavior change company. We've been in the leadership space for four decades now 40 years and many state and I say this with humility that we are the most trusted leadership organization in the world. But that is what we do. We go in and we don't create strategy, but we help people execute on their strategy. We help everyone in the organization understand what their role is in executing on that strategy.
John Neral:We help everyone in the organization understand what their role is in executing on that strategy. Over the last few months we've had some conversations on the podcast that have really focused on helping mid-career, mid-level leaders be more strategic, and so it's really poignant that you're here on the show today to kind of add a little bit more to this conversation and one of those things around helping these mid-career professionals who go from this very kind of executing or tactical doer type role. A lot of times they find themselves ascending into a managerial role and for some it might even be the first time where they're leading people. And here they are, this high performer, high potential, they're doing great work and, of course, you're going to be great managing people. You're great at everything else. You're going to be fine, and then, all of a sudden, things are now difficult to be fine and then, all of a sudden, things are now difficult.
John Neral:You've written a book called Everyone Deserves a Great Manager and I love the title of that. I will tell you, I've, jokingly in my mind, kind of been like, yeah, we could twist that title around and come up with a couple of different things in terms of why everybody has a horrible manager and how you kind of deal with it. But your spin on this title, though, and this book in general about everyone deserving a great manager, certainly sounds like a great wish. We know, in reality, todd, it doesn't always happen, so tell us a little bit how you help people have these difficult conversations with their manager, when they're not always the best.
Todd Davis:Yeah, thank you, john. Thanks for your thanks, for I love the title too. We had several versions, but that's the one we landed on. You know, harvard Business Review just to your point here, and then I'll get into your question. But Harvard Business Review did a study not too long ago that showed most people are put in their first leadership or managerial role around age 30. And yet most people, to your point, don't receive any kind of leadership training until age 42. So it's basically, you know, welcome to 12 years of good luck leadership.
Todd Davis:And we have found and you just kind of reiterated that, but most of us, all of us probably have been in that position where we have been working for a leader, probably a good person, but who clearly has some gaps in their leadership and management skills.
Todd Davis:And I bet many of us who are in leadership roles have been that person. You know what you were saying just a minute ago, when I was first put into a leadership role, that's exactly what the person who promoted me said You're really good with people, okay, but how do I conduct a one-on-one or how do I put together a performance reviewer? So, yeah, we go into this being in most cases because we're great individual contributors, but the mindset and the skill set that helped us succeed as an individual contributor is very different than a leadership mindset. Summarized quickly, it's shifting from I'm responsible for the results to I'm responsible for getting results with and through others, and so it all starts with a mindset of realizing hey, not about me, not about my blue ribbon, I get to hang up. Now it's about how do I help the team succeed and achieve these results that we're charged with.
John Neral:The follow-up question. We know the whole mid-career space is very dynamic and when we think about the typical age of a mid-career professional, it is possible and more than likely in probably more circumstances than we may actually care to admit in some ways, that the mid-career professional ends up reporting to someone who is younger than them. So now we're dealing with not only a leadership shift, but we have an age shift there as well. And so here I am. I'm older than you quote unquote I know more than you, but yet you're the one that's anointed and you're in this role. And now you're going to tell me about my performance. How do you help people navigate those kind of dynamics where so much of the mindset or the thoughts may be getting in the way?
Todd Davis:Yeah, you just caused me to think of a phrase that was shared with me many years ago that I hadn't forgotten, but I hadn't thought of it for a little bit here, and that is a very wise leader shared this with me A's hire A pluses and B's hire C's Meaning if I'm an A player, I want to surround myself with A pluses those that know more than I do, even those who are younger than me that know more than I do. An A person hires A pluses those that know more than I do, even those who are younger than me that know more than I do. An A person hires A pluses around her or him. A B player is like you're saying, they hire the Cs and the Ds. I don't know. I got to remain the smartest person on the team, I've got to have all the answers, and it's an ego thing. But more than that, it's a human thing, because it's an insecurity thing and every one of us, you know, if we're not careful we can slip into that insecurity, insecure part of us that causes us to make bad decisions, and so and so just to your question.
Todd Davis:That's how I've coached leaders and others is reminding them what is your role, what is the goal here as a leader?
Todd Davis:Is it to be to walk up on the stage, receive the trophy and be known as the best leader in the company, or is it to be known as the person who helped Joe and Aaron and John and Cindy become all that they could be great leader?
Todd Davis:Or I want to make sure my team is led by a great leader, and obviously my band is towards the latter, because if I focus on the team and them getting getting the results they need and so and so, now to flip it, if I'm one of those team members, like you say, I'm older, well, not, maybe not wiser, but been in a role much longer and I'm reporting to somebody much younger, I need to ask myself the question. I'd look in the mirror Okay, what is my? I need to ask myself the question I'd look in the mirror Okay, what is my? What is my goal here? Is it to, is it to prove myself? Or is it to contribute and say what, what is my role? You've been in putting this position for a reason. What can I do that will best serve you and the company and the team?
John Neral:and the project that we're working on. I love how you phrase that. Cause it. It's such a grounding question to pull people back to what's their intent or their reason for how they're showing up every day. Right, we can get caught up in so much minutiae it's not even funny. But to really pull back to what's my role, what's my intention I love how you phrased it that way.
Todd Davis:I appreciate you commenting on that because, sorry, just one thing I wanted to add. When you ask about FranklinCovey all of our solutions and when people say, gosh, why are they known as the most effective, if you want to call it a training organization in the space? And many say that we are, and it's because we focus on paradigms, what you just hit on. We focus on mindset, and every one of our solutions I'll tell you every keynote I do, every work session I facilitate. We start with paradigms. What is your paradigm? Is it complete? Is it accurate? Are you seeing things as they really are or are you seeing things as you kind of think they should be, because that's how you've always seen them? And so the wisest, most influential leaders whether I'm mid-career, beginning my career, last stages of my career the most wise leaders and movers and shakers they frequently stand back and examine their paradigms and make sure they're accurate and they're complete.
John Neral:Oh, you brought me back to a conversation I had with a coach of mine very early on when I started my practice, and she asked me a question one time and she said to me when you're talking about this, is it a truth with a capital T or a truth with a small t? I love that. And so the capital T is truth that's grounded in evidence and facts, and the small T is assumptions and speculations and stories we tell ourselves that aren't grounded in the evidence.
Todd Davis:So uh, great, I love, I love that metaphor, though I'm going to remember that Is this truth, that I'm putting down my sword on a capital T or a small T that I, you know, maybe ought to re-examine again. Yeah.
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John Neral:You can get your free copy at my website at johnneral. com/freebies. Let me help you get unstuck and less frustrated in your job search. Now let's get back to the episode
John Neral:Todd in your work and in helping people along their leadership development. One of the things that I remember from our pre-call was talking about a leader's soft skills, and I think there was a point in our conversation where I can't remember if you equated to if it was. People skills and soft skills are the same thing or they're different. Can you clarify that for me please?
Todd Davis:Yeah, absolutely, are the same thing or they're different. Can you clarify that for me please? Yeah, absolutely. We talk about this because it's specific data that individual contributors 80% of what they do their success is based on their technical skills and 20% on their people skills. When you are moved into a leadership role, it just flips. And when you are moved into a leadership role, it just flips 20%. To be a successful leader, 20% is based on your technical skills and those competencies and 80% is on your people skills and soft skills, as some call them, and I don't shy away from calling them soft skills. I just want to make sure that people know without those soft skills, you're not going to accomplish much and you're not going to lead people to accomplish much.
John Neral:What's the one people skill you find yourself either presenting about, talking about or even coaching on the most right now in this current job landscape?
Todd Davis:Yeah, I don't want this to sound self-serving, because I already talked about empathy being one of my strengths and, again, I have many weaknesses, but it revolves around empathy. For any of your listeners who are familiar with the seven habits of highly effective people, which is kind of our foundational product or course or work session. Dr Stephen R Covey, the best-selling author of that work, who has been had passed away several years ago, but I had the great opportunity of working with him for many years before that passing and that book Seven Habits remains one of the best-selling business books of all time. And habit number five. So I'm getting to your, I'm getting an answer to your question here.
Todd Davis:Habit number five is seek first to understand, then to be understood. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. And going back to paradigms, a common paradigm that you and I might have is I got to make sure people understand my point of view and that sounds logical and that sounds reasonable. But highly effective leaders, highly effective influential individual contributors they realize that I have much more influence, not power, but I have much more influence with everyone if I take time to understand themselves. So if I'm a leader trying to coach someone who's really struggling in their role, or I'm trying to negotiate between two people and come to some middle ground, or what we call a third alternative. The magic or the real skill is in taking time to understand them first.
Todd Davis:Suspending, not throwing away, not agreeing or disagreeing, but suspending our feelings, our thoughts on a subject long enough to truly understand the other person, not just you know, I'm just going to kind of listen to John and, yeah, I kind of know what he's going to say and I'm already formulating my response. No, I'm going to stop formulating my response, I'm going to stop my brain activity there, other than just hearing where John's really coming from, because, john, we do that. And then we say, oh I, well, I disagree. I can see why he feels that way, or I can see why she's thinking we ought to do that, and it gives me a better opportunity to say, okay, I. So what I hear you saying is this are you concerned at all If this might come up? And you can, you can get in their shoes as best as anyone can. Sorry, I get passionate about this and I end up talking a lot.
John Neral:You're great, and I want to stay with this for a minute, because one of the characteristics of the people who typically listen to this show is that they will describe themselves as heart-centric or big-hearted leaders, and for a lot of them, they have been told that being empathetic is great, but it may not be your best path to success here, and they work in organizations where there's a little bit of lip service in terms of being told well, it's great that you care so much, but here's what I need you to focus on, and what often happens then, as we know, is that this becomes a values conflict, where they still want to show up every day and be the big hearted leader that they are, but organizationally, they're told that that may not be highly valued or desired. What would you say to them?
Todd Davis:Yeah, such a valid point. Such a valid point. I'm glad we're adding to this, because empathy I still stand by empathy being one of the, if not the most important, leadership skill, balanced with courage. So, this balance of courage and consideration, and if you have too much consideration to the point you're just making, if all I am is consideration, well, I'm going to probably be the nicest person around. Everybody's going to like me, but are we going to really get done what really matters?
Todd Davis:Now, on the other hand, if all I am is courage, I have no empathy, I have no consideration. I'm just a driver. Nope, we got to get this and to get this done, same problem I'm going to have turnover like nobody else. So it's not an either or it is this near perfect balance of courage and consideration who is very clear on what the deliverables are, but also I feel that she has my back, or that he's taking time to really listen to me and cares about my input as well, and yet we still got to meet the goal. So, yeah, it can't be all empathy, but it also can't be. It can be whatever you want, but for him to be effective, it can't be all empathy, but it also can't be all just this directive, one after another. I don't have a concern about your personal life or anything else that you're struggling with.
John Neral:You shared. Such a great point, though, about there being a balance between the two and I think that's going to be something that will help people who are listening is that we're not saying to disavow or not acknowledge that big heart that you have, but find a way to leverage it and balance it accordingly with all of the other skills that you bring to your leadership.
Todd Davis:That's exactly right, john. Here's a really good example. Our latest work session just released. I'm not delivering this.
Todd Davis:A lot, both virtually and in person, is navigating difficult conversations. And just to emphasize the point you're making here, in navigating difficult conversations, we want to begin them and then continue throughout the conversation with this balance of courage and consideration. So what we teach leaders and others to do when they're preparing for a difficult conversation is they want to create a purpose and positive intent statement. Purpose is the courage you know what I need and positive intent is what the listener needs. And so here's an example that shows a real life example of courage and consideration, or purpose and positive intent.
Todd Davis:If you and I were meeting and there's been a performance issue well, let's not say you and I, because you would never have a performance issue, but let's say I'm meeting with someone named Joe and there's a performance issue I would begin that conversation by saying, joe, I appreciate you meeting with me. I need to talk with you about a behavior that is damaging your reputation and the team's. And, joe, I want you to know that my only reason for bringing up this conversation is because I care deeply about your success and I want you to be a superstar on the team. That's a sentence that shows courage. I got to talk to you about a performance issue and I care deeply about you and your brand and your reputation, and so the empathy and the positive intent, that's how you put what we're talking about into action.
John Neral:Okay, so I'm going to encourage everybody to hit the back button a few times to go back and listen to that again, because the way you phrased that was so powerful in terms of teeing up that conversation. But one of the things I heard and I take away from that example, todd was that that conversation did not shy or divert from the issue at hand. It was clean, clear and direct about the performance issue that you're going to talk and we're not going to put it into an empathy sandwich and we're not going to make you feel good at the start or feel good at the end, because that's not what this is about. This is about having a difficult conversation that is very clean and clear.
Todd Davis:Thank you for that, thanks for that feedback, because that's exactly why and again it's very sincere, it comes from the heart. I do care about Joe's success, but you phrased that beautifully and it's such great coaching for leaders and others, is that? No, this is an important issue. You got to hear this loud and clear and, yes, you need to know I care about you, but that can't overshadow or, as you said, be sandwiched in so that I don't okay, well, you love me, and I think that's kind of all I heard, because that happens really good leaders that are great with empathy. Like I said, everybody loves them, but they don't get much done or many problems solved.
John Neral:And there are organizations out there that hold on to that kind of sandwich methodology for giving feedback, and that's the culture and that's the way they choose to go about it and everything I just offer. In my own experience, I don't find that feedback particularly effective.
Todd Davis:You are so right In fact, I can't tell you how many people I've coached In just this particular example, they will say, okay, but what if I started with hey, joe, first of all, I want you to know what a great partner you are in the team. Everybody loves you, everybody gets along with you, so I hope you know how much we all love you. I need to talk to you about this one thing, but, but, but, please, nobody loves you, and then they will talk about the one thing. Joe never remembers that or he's thinking well, that must not be that big a deal.
Todd Davis:So it's your exact point and it's it's really hard, especially for people who lead with empathy, to start out a conversation. Joe, I need to talk to you about a performance issue, issue that's really important and it's getting in the way of your brand and your reputation. With that, I want you to know how much I value you and your success, and that's why I'm having this conversation. It's so hard for people who are heavy on empathy to flip it, to get the purpose out there first and then add a little empathy. It's counterintuitive to them, but it's what makes them great leaders, and great leaders of these types of conversations.
John Neral:Thank you for that. We've covered a lot in a short amount of time, but as we start wrapping up here, I'm really curious to know from you if there's something you want to talk a little bit more about or something you haven't. But what advice would you leave the listeners with today to help them build their mid-career GPS?
Todd Davis:Yeah, you know you're really good at this, john. You should do this for a living. You're really good at these questions. It's a great question. It's a great question and, thinking back and again, I'm still a full-time consultant with Frank McCovey, Love what I do.
Todd Davis:So I don't want to say I'm in my last years here. But thinking back to the mid-career, todd, what I would try I hopefully did it but what I would try to do better is have my it's a maturity thing but to have my focus on what is the organization trying to achieve, and as much as I want to get a promotion or if I'm applying for that job, they're getting in there. I want to go in and sure, tell them all about what I can do, but first and foremost, focus on what is it that they're really trying to understand the organization's mission, understand the team's mission, and think about sincere ways that I could contribute to that instead of, well, let me tell you about me and let me tell you about why I'm so great and again, nobody says it that way, but sometimes we lose sight of what the real goal is, and so that would be one thing. One other thing that just came to mind another book that I was honored to write about 10 years ago is called Get Better 15 Proven Practices to Build Effective Relationships at Work, and I bring that up not to tell you I wrote another book, but to tell you that the premise of that book is, yes, you need to have the right people on the bus. Of course you have to have the right people on the bus, but it's actually the nature of the relationships between those people that that makes the real difference.
Todd Davis:And so I guess, short summary, relationships matter. Relationships matter, and and you think about those leaders that you trust that you would do anything, for it wasn't just because they were all empathy or they, they were all nice, they told you hard stuff, they challenged you, they were honest with you, but you knew they cared about you. So be that kind of person, even before you're in a leadership role, even as an individual contributor. Be someone who everyone could say oh, you know exactly where they stand. They're never rude or unprofessional, but they're direct. They're also very respectful. They're someone who focuses. They, you know, they're someone who focuses on deep, meaningful relationships. It makes all the difference in the world.
John Neral:So good, so good. I hope everybody is taking a note and really absorbing this conversation. So, todd, if people want to learn more about you, franklin Covey, where people can find you, I'm going to turn the microphone over to you. Please share us all the good places where people can connect.
Todd Davis:Yeah, well, we'll keep it really simple. It's just wwwfranklincoveycom and once you go to our website you can put in the search bar. You can certainly put in my name, but you can put in any of the topics we've talked about navigating different conversations, empathy I need to be a better leader. You can put anything and they'll find a wealth of information there, including how to reach me specifically.
John Neral:I will make sure all of that is in the show notes. But, todd Davis, thank you so very much for being a great guest on the Mid-Career GPS podcast. I truly enjoyed our conversation today, thank you.
Todd Davis:Don, you have got my Monday and my week off to a great start, so thank you for being such a great host. Thank you.
John Neral:All right, my friends, here's one big takeaway I want to just go back and revisit with you and it's something that Todd said early on that, based on I think it was a Harvard Business Review study, that our first leadership role happens at 30, but we don't actually experience our first leadership development training until our early 40s. And so if you're a mid-level, mid-career professional, that's in a leadership role, I want you to take this conversation and run with it in terms of how can you own your leadership development? Who's the leader you want to be? What training, skills, knowledge, education do you feel you need to have to help you be a better leader? But, lastly, it's this Todd and I talked about how leveraging your strength is a key part of your leadership development. So if you're an empathetic leader, if you've got a big heart, how can you do that more? How can you embrace courage with your empathy, as Todd talked about, to help you find that balance so you can be not just a successful leader within your organization but a more impactful one as well. So until next time, my friends, remember this you will build your mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time, and how you show up matters Make it a great rest of your day.
John Neral:Thank you for listening to the Mid-Career GPS Podcast. Make sure to follow on your favorite listening platform and, if you have a moment, I'd love to hear your comments on Apple Podcasts. Visit johnnerrellcom for more information about how I can help you build your mid-career GPS or how I can help you and your organization with your next workshop or public speaking event. Help you and your organization with your next workshop or public speaking event. Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn and follow me on social at John Darrell Coaching. I look forward to being back with you next week. Until then, take care and remember how we show up matters. Thank, you.