From Setbacks to Success: Sharing Your Hero's Journey in Career Progression

Subscriber-only episode

Have you ever felt inspired by the remarkable stories of heroes and icons like Tina Turner? In this episode, we uncover the power of storytelling and how you can craft your hero's journey. Join me, John Neral, as I walk you through my experience of facing career setbacks, learning from them, and embarking on an unexpected adventure that led me to a new chapter in my life.

Together, we'll break down the three-part structure of Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces and discuss how utilizing the STAR method can help you effectively communicate your story in interviews and networking conversations. From identifying your mission to acknowledging the obstacles, challenges, and supporters in your journey, we'll guide you in creating a relatable and compelling story that resonates with your audience.

Don't miss out on this opportunity to unlock the power of your story and inspire others with your journey. As we continue to build Your Mid-Career GPS, remember that our individual stories hold immense impact, and staying true to your voice is essential. Stay tuned for exciting updates to the podcast, and keep embracing the hero within you.

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Chapters

• 0:11 Telling Your Hero's Journey
• 10:17 Navigating Career Setbacks and Learning Opportunities
• 18:14 Career Progression and Leadership Development
• 34:43 Crafting Your Hero's Journey
• 42:09 Mid-Career GPS Podcast Updates

Transcript

Welcome to the mid-career GPS Podcast Plus. I'm your host, john Neral. This is the subscriber or paid version of my podcast And first and foremost, i want to thank you for your support. My goal here is to go deeper with you on specific topics and share knowledge and information with you to help you navigate and build your mid-career GPS more intentionally and effectively. As always, the content shared here is for information only, and I'm here to offer that information to help you build your mid-career GPS to whatever is next for you and your career. 

This is episode five of the Mid-Career GPS Podcast Plus, and today we're going to be talking about your hero's journey. How do you tell that story when you're networking or interviewing to truly grab someone's attention and you actually get to hold their interest because they are so compelled at what they're listening to? Before we get started, though, i got to tell you it is hard to believe it is June. I have sat here this past few weeks and going. I just can't believe how quickly the time is going. So it feels like this year is flying by, and it's even more reason to just help us slow down and enjoy these summer months ahead. Now, speaking of slowing down, if you followed me on LinkedIn, you would have seen a post recently about how I got a speeding ticket. I got tagged by one of those speeding cameras. I was doing 70 and a 55. I know I know, bad John, bad John. It's another reminder, though, for me to slow down. I can tell you exactly where I was and what was going on. I could probably even tell you what was going on in my head in that moment as well. But here's the thing I love LinkedIn. It's primarily where I spend most of my time on social media. So if we are not connected there, please send me a connection request. I'd be honored to be a part of your network and have you a part of mine. So send me a connection request and let me know that you heard that on the podcast Here and let's get connected. So, as I mentioned, your hero's journey is that compelling story, and today, what I want to do for you and this is the benefit of the mid-career GPS podcast plus is that I go into far more depth and detail on this platform, because you are a paid subscriber for it. You're going to talk about what the hero's journey is, how to tell it and how to get more people interested in who you are and what you do. And to help with that, i want to talk to you about Tina Turner. 

We heard about a week or so ago that Tina Turner passed away after an illness. I think she was 83, if I'm not mistaken. But when I watched various news channels and I saw different things online, the common thread here was that everyone told her hero's journey. Yes, we're familiar with her music, right. My personal song Favorite of Hers is simply the best. But whether it's we don't need another hero, or it's what's love got to do with it, or private dancer, she had so many iconic hits, right. 

But her story about starting her career as a young woman, getting involved in an abusive and toxic relationship, staying in that relationship because she didn't want to upset everyone and everything around her, leaving the relationship with 36 cents in her pocket, fighting for the legal right to keep her name, and then the amazing success that took off for her in the 80s. So much so to the point that when we heard Tina Turner, we didn't always think about Ike immediately, because it was Tina. Tina was who we fell in love with, tina was who we rooted for. That is part of the hero's journey, because her story is so compelling And you can think of whatever famous person you can think of right now. They've got a hero's journey. You can think of the people in your life, the people whom you work alongside, of. They have a story as well. Now, the idea behind the hero's journey was actually a framework that was created by Joseph Campbell in his mythology book called The Hero with a Thousand Faces, and one of the things I particularly appreciate his structure is that it only has three parts. There's the Departure Act, the Initiation Act and the Return Act. 

As I researched from Prep for this episode, there were many different models, or templates, if you will, about what the hero's journey specifically is. Some had 12 steps, some had six. This one has three, and here's why I like this most specifically is that when I coach my clients on how they tell their story from a place of value and service, especially when they're interviewing for a job, so many of them are familiar with the STAR method, and I like the STAR method. Don't get me wrong, right, the STAR method stands for Situational Task Action Result, and so when you're asked a behavioral question, that typically begins with tell me about a time when the most familiar way to answer, that is, to structure your response in terms of the STAR method. So here was the situation, here was the task I was assigned, here were the action steps that I took. Here were the results that I got. The thing about the STAR method is it drives home okay. What did you do? What were the results? 

The hero's journey is far more than that right. It goes into far more detail because it's a compelling story. So I'm going to share with you my hero's journey as an example. This is a story that I often talk about, i speak to organizations about. You may have heard this before on another episode of the podcast, but I'm going to share some more details with you here because I want you along for the ride. You'll be able to figure out in your own story where you want to parse information, where you may want to expand a little bit more. I want to offer you that when you're telling your hero's journey at first, there's no time limit. I'm not going to bore you with some three-hour story, i promise you. But essentially, here it is. 

One of the many reasons I love coaching mid-career professionals is that I remember such a defining moment for me in my career Being a heart-centered leader and professional and someone who prided himself on being organizationally loyal. I'm sure you can imagine how upsetting and confusing it was to me when I was about 10 years into a job and I didn't think I could stay there for the rest of my career. See, there's a lot of fun about teaching middle school mathematics. I used to tell my students all the time that the thing I loved about math was that there was a right answer, but that there were so many different ways you could get there. I used to do an example with my students about adding two three-digit numbers together. As you're listening to this, let's just think of the numbers 712 and 165. 

I would say to my students okay, add them up. Well, some would write them down. They would add up the numbers in the ones column and then the tens column and then the hundreds column. Some would ask if they could use a calculator. Nobody ever initially came up and said hey, mr Narrow, can I add the numbers from left to right? Usually, when they ask that, they would say no, no, you can't do that. That's not right. What do you mean? it's not right, it's about getting the right answer. We would add up the numbers in the hundreds column first, and the tens and the ones, and we would play around all these different ways to unlock their problem-solving skills. I loved the conversations that happened in my room about mathematics, whether we were talking about number sense, algebra, geometry, whatever it was. 

I knew that when I had 25 kids sitting in front of me, that I was going to do whatever I could to make math fun. You can imagine how upsetting it was when that voice crept into my head and it said John, you can't do this for the rest of your career. I brushed it off. I thought, okay. Then that voice kept getting louder. I found that I was waking up in the morning and I wasn't really happy about going to work. In fact, i felt like I was getting a little bored or stagnant. Sure, there was another chapter, there was a different unit, there were lessons I really loved doing and some I was still trying to perfect, but the truth is I wasn't happy. I had 25 students in front of me four times a day that were counting on me to be at my best and I didn't feel like I was. 

I started thinking what else could I do? I networked, i talked to colleagues, i talked to friends, i thought, well, i should be a department chair. I know what good instruction looks like. I know how to supervise At least I thought I did. I felt like I had a lot to offer as a mid-career professional that could step up and move into this greater leadership role and leverage the leadership experience I already had. Plus, i had an active tutoring business. I was consulting with different education companies. I was a really good candidate. 

I started interviewing for jobs. The question I always came up against was well, you don't have any direct supervisory experience. In my district I was known as a coordinator. Coordinator didn't evaluate staff while I was in the classroom and directly supporting teachers as well. It wasn't quote unquote the leadership skills that they wanted. I remember interviewing for one department chair's position in a neighboring district. I so wanted that job. 

I had a friend of mine whose mom was running for mayor of that town who was very kind enough to get me a copy of the education budget. It was public information anyway. It wasn't hidden or anything, but just knowing her was nice to have that connection. I remember combing through that budget looking at everything from where their resources were allocated for curriculum and technology. I remember sitting in this very cold boardroom with nine members of the board of education sitting around the table and I at the head. Each one of them asked me a question. 

In the days when we sat in front of everybody we weren't behind Zoom screens It was so important for me to look at the person who asked me the question and then make sure I made eye contact with everyone around me And I remember when we got to the end of their questions at the interview, they said to me what questions do you have? And I started picking apart their budget. I started asking them questions about where their technology program was headed in terms of the internet, graphing calculators, calculators for all students, apps, laptop computers for students, but all of that was going to look like I challenged them on things in their budget because I wanted them to know I was a strategic thinker. There was a point during the interview where they looked at each other And I thought, oh, i got them. When I left that interview, the person who escorted me out looked at me and said I can't tell you if you're going to get the job or not, but I can tell you you made this very difficult for us. When I got the call and I was told that I wasn't the selected candidate. I asked why. They informed me that they went with an internal candidate because that was their process, but they wanted me to know that I interviewed extremely well and a district would be happy to have me. 

Like many of you, when you don't get the job you want, there's disappointment, there's frustration. You wonder when it's finally going to happen. I continued to look for jobs, but in the education world it's very cyclical. You typically don't interview jobs until the end of the school year, and even then it's a limited window as staff tries to make their choices. What I hadn't figured in all of this process was that I would then meet my now husband. We dated long distance for two years. He works in the federal government, and so him moving to Northern New Jersey was actually not in the cards. He couldn't have the same kind of career, let alone the same kind of income, and it was far easier for me to move than it was for him, and so I agreed. I said I will come to Washington DC if and I stress if I can get a job In 2009,. In fact, it was February of 2009,. 

I interviewed for a job as a mathematics teacher at a school in Northeast DC Northwest, i believe, northwest. As soon as I was done with the interview and demonstrating a lesson in front of 17 eighth grade students and eight supervisors and administrators, i was escorted into a room and I was offered a job on the spot. They wanted me. However, it came with a $25,000 pay cut that I was not willing to take. Through that connection at that school I was informed of a central office position, or what was called a professional development specialist. I interviewed for that job. I knew I did well in that interview And when I left that interview I was told we'll make a decision come early June, when we have our budget. We'll be letting you know. When I heard we'll be letting you know, i thought, oh my gosh, i'm going to get the job. I'm going to be able to move to DC. My personal and my professional life are going to take a completely different route. It was in early June. 

I had gone to lunch with a colleague of mine and as I was walking out, my phone rang. I answered it and it was the deputy chief of that department. She called to profusely apologize because the funding for her program was cut And instead of hiring 16 people. She could only hire four and I wasn't one of the four. She said to me I really hope you apply next year for this position. I am assured I will have the funding. What are you going to say? at that point I said yes, of course I felt like I got kicked in the gut. Getting kicked in the gut professionally sucks. I just didn't know what it was going to mean for my relationship. 

I talked to Richard and long story short. We agreed or at least this part of the long story short. We agreed that we would just continue to date long distance for another year, but that I would go into the next school year fully committed that there was something I was meant to learn. Whether it be about leadership, strategy, execution, pedagogy, methodology, whatever it was, there was something I was meant to learn and I was going to welcome it And I did. I leveled up my leadership both as a district level mathematics coordinator and as co-president of my local education association that supported over 160 teachers and paraprofessionals, administrative assistants. In that role. I learned more in that year than I had ever thought I would And I offered you that. The reason being was because of my mindset going into that year, my eyes and my ears were open to what I could learn and what that looked like. 

February of 2010 rolls around. I go back and I interview for the same job I had interviewed for the year prior. One of the requirements of that job was to deliver a 10-minute professional development presentation on a topic of my choice. It would have been so easy for me to take the same presentation I did the year before because I knew it was good and deliver it, but I didn't. And let me tell you I'm really glad I did that, because somebody in that interview had interviewed me the year before And he looked at me and he said I remember you from last year And I want to acknowledge in front of you and the entire committee that you could have come in here and delivered the same presentation you did last year, but you didn't. Thank you, it was definitely one of those things that made me memorable. 

I got the job. I left my district coordinator's position of 14 years. I moved away from very dear family and friends in my early 40s to start a whole new career and new life in our nation's capital. I left that job the end of June. I started the second week of July and we had about a five-week runway before we actually got to meet our team. I ended up supervising 21 instructional coaches across 13 middle schools, and the 14 months I spent working for District of Columbia Public Schools are 14 of some of the best months of my career. I saw things that I celebrated every day, and there were other days I came home and cried. I learned so much about leadership and team building. I learned about having intentional conversations and what evidence-based results look like. 

After 14 months there, i left that job and I went to the state superintendent where I worked on assessment. I worked on a small team that was in charge of administering a district-wide assessment to over 78,000 students in our nation's capital to assess proficiency in mathematics, english language, arts and science. And after 14 months there, i moved to an educational nonprofit that worked with states across the country to build and deliver their state summative assessments. In that job I was asked this question during the interview Why should we hire you? I know for many of you who are listening that is a dreaded question. In the interview process You may feel like you have to boast or brag about why you're so great and wonderful. 

That day I was in a four-hour interview. The first hour was a technical interview where I was given a series of assessment items and how to correct them. I didn't think I did too well. The next part of the interview was meeting with the executive vice president of the organization. Admittedly scared the heck out of me. I didn't think I did well on that either. I had a moment before the next part of my interview where I actually thought I was going to leave. I thought I'd bomb this interview. I might as well just go. I can go grab some lunch and have a nice rest of the day. Then another part of me thought well, here's the thing I can play full out. I have nothing to lose and everything to gain here. Why pull my punches? 

I went and interviewed with a woman who is the director of the mathematics team at the time. She looked at me in all seriousness. After about 15, 20 minutes she said why do we hire you? Because I love to diffuse humor. I love to diffuse situations with humor. I looked at her and I said well, i spent 14 years teaching mathematics in Northern New Jersey. I spent 14 months at the District of Columbia Public Schools and now 14 months at the State Superintendent's Office. I'm just trying to get to 15 somewhere. You want to hire me? She looked at me and she laughed. When she stopped laughing, i said, all joking aside, here's why you hire me. 

I'm pretty sure I bombed that assessment or didn't do as well as I had hoped. My content knowledge is good. You can scale and level me up, that's not going to be a problem. But what I've heard today so far is that you're looking for leadership. You're looking for somebody who can lead a team, and I have experience doing that. I also know how to repair dysfunctional teams and make them effective. I know how to have the conversations nobody wants to have, because in my experience I've had to have some very difficult conversations both in my life and my career. I am not afraid of conflict. I don't enjoy it, but I'm not afraid of it. If there is a place for me on your team where I can help you deliver the things that I believe it is that you want. You want to deliver a quality assessment. You want a team that is highly functioning and productive. I'll also offer you that, if there's ever a client meeting, you can put me in front of a client and never have to worry about me screwing anything up If those are areas in which I can help you. That is why you hire me. To this day, it is one of the best answers, if not the best answer I have ever given in an interview. 

There was a moment we just looked at each other and thought all right, let's get to work. I went through the rest of the day's interview and, after several rounds of negotiating back and forth, i accepted that job. I had a wonderful office on the fifth floor at the Georgetown Waterfront. For a guy who used to teach in a small little classroom in northern New Jersey that overlooked a playing field, this was a big, big difference. I remember that first week sitting in my office with my L-shaped desk and two bookcases and a table and a window two windows that had a beautiful view And I thought this is different. I made it. 

That all changed three weeks later When the woman who hired me and asked me the question why do we hire you? walked into my office and closed my door on a Friday at about 4.30 in the afternoon, i think. At that point all the color went out of my face and she looked at me and she goes you are not being fired. I looked at her and I said thank you. See, if you're in a leadership role like let's just diffuse those situations right off the bat, you're not getting fired. Thank you, that's good. I was impressed she knew me that quickly. 

In three weeks We sat down at my table and she said to me do you remember? when I asked you why I hire you? I said yeah. She said here's why I'm very busy. I'm pulled in a lot of different directions and I need someone to lead this team and I want it to be you. I need you to put this team together in the way that it needs to be And I essentially want you to be in my right arm. She said I want you to take the weekend to think about it, but I'd really appreciate if you would Thought about it over the weekend. Came back in I said yes, let's get to work. And over the course of the next almost five years in that organization I pivoted through a couple of different roles, but we rebuilt that team. I got to know what it was like to work with remote employees and lead them to navigate through senior leadership team and understand how executive team worked. All of those experiences kept adding to my portfolio And after the second reorg where, admittedly, i didn't land well, i questioned why I was even there. 

I went to my VP one day, whom I was reporting to, and I said I need to ask you a question and I trust that you'll give me an honest answer. Can I ask you? She was at her desk and she said yeah, go ahead. I said I'm trying to figure out my path here And the way I see it after this reorg, it is at best horizontal. While I'm at not risk of getting fired today, the reality is not getting promoted, not getting a pay raise, i'm certainly not getting a bonus, And I feel as if I'm left on an island to die. How accurate am I? 

To this day, i can still remember that conversation. I remember she took her pen and she slammed it down on her desk and she says John, they don't get you, They don't understand all the things that you do. I have tried to communicate it to them, but this was their decision. She looked at me and she said you're very smart. And I looked at her and I said thank you. At that point I had all of the information I needed. When I talk about my show of six strategies, and, for those of you who are subscribing, know about the importance of having an intentional conversation. It is the art of moving the relationship forward in a way that you get the information you need versus the information you want. And at that point I came home and I talked to Richard and I told him. I said I think it's time. 

About four weeks after that conversation, i quit that job. I walked into my VP's office and I told her and I said, with a lot of gratitude, i'm giving you my resignation. I can help far more people outside of this organization than I can internally And I'm going to be opening up my own coaching practice where I will help people find a job they love. She looked at me and she said I'm shocked. I said come on. No, you're not. I said you and I have had way too many conversations. It's not a surprise. We talked about a few more things and I also knew that she was protecting me in a lot of ways, in my opinion, and I'm very grateful for that, because we need people in our careers to look out for us. I left my job on December 1st 2017 and I launched my coaching practice full time on January 3rd 2018. 

I have never looked back. My business has evolved and shaped and pivoted in terms of exactly who I help and landing on why I specifically help mid-career professionals is exactly what I just shared with you. We need to have better conversations about where our career is headed. We need to be happy in what we're doing. My wish for everybody is that they wake up in the morning excited to go to work, excited that they get to do the things they believe they're great at, they're called to do. They are challenged by because we spend a lot of time at work And at mid-career. When you are building your wealth and you are building your brand, the decisions you make at mid-career absolutely set you up for whatever is next And hopefully, what that sets you up for is a job that is a career inside of an organization that you believe you fit. You are performing the absolute right functions that align to your skill set. You are financially being appropriately rewarded and compensated for what you're doing And every single day, you are moving your career forward. And, my friends, is why I do what I do. 

This is my hero's journey, because I went from being a wonderfully talented middle school mathematics teacher who had a six-figure salary and could have stayed in that district because of tenure for another 20-some-odd-plus years, but I stepped out because I wasn't happy. I stepped out because I knew there was more for me out there and I was willing to take the risk, both personally as well as professionally, and I am happy and honored to say that it's worked out. It doesn't mean that there weren't a lot of tears and a lot of worry and a lot of panic nights thinking, oh my gosh, i'm in business for myself, how is this going to work? And, admittedly, there are still some days where I sit there and go what the hell did I do? And then I go oh yeah, and it's pretty awesome. It's what I want for you. So I took a very long route in telling you the hero's journey because you need to do that as well. I want you to write down or record your hero's journey The moment you believe, right before things start to change, to the change and what the results are on the other side. I want you to capture it And I want you to look at that And I want you to figure out what are the parts that people are going to be interested in hearing, because when we think about the hero's journey. 

If we go back to Joseph Campbell's three parts, the departure act where are you leaving the quote unquote ordinary world? What is that point in your career where you were feeling stuck, undervalued, underutilized, unhappy, miserable, whatever that is? What was the part where you said to yourself something has to change. Part two, the initiation act Where were you venturing out into something that was unknown or scary? Where were you dipping your toe in the waters, if you will, to see if this was going to work? Did you take a side gig or hustle? Did you take an internship or a detail? Did you move into a role for a temporary amount of time? Did you jump companies? Did you pivot careers? But there's a part in your journey where you did something that admittedly scared the heck out of you and you were going to do it anyway. What connects people to the hero's journey is that they want to see success. They also want to know how vulnerable you are, where you were scared, frightened, worried, uncertain. And then we get to step three, the Return Act, where you, as the hero, returns home victorious because everything worked out. You succeeded far beyond yours and others' expectations. 

Here are some questions I want you to think about And you may want to go back to this part of the recording as you build these components to your hero's journey. But the first question is what is it about your story that is relatable or familiar to your audience? This might be networking with a prospective employer or a certain connection, and how you got past that. How did you learn to fine-tune your networking strategy that got you information you needed? Another question to consider is what is it about your everyday experience that someone can relate to, where they see themselves in your situation? 

One of the reasons why my hero's journey is so compelling to the people I work with and I talk to day in and day out is because I get an understand and, more importantly, i see and hear them about their frustrations in their career, because I have a relatable experience. I work with people across a variety of industries And I will tell you. When they find out or they ask what's your background, i say well, i have a 25-year career in education. I started off as a middle school mathematics teacher. I see their eyes kind of glaze over. It's almost to say how is a middle school mathematics teacher going to help me be a better executive? And then I tell them because my experiences are relatable to them. I know how to make those connections. 

As you think about your hero's journey, i want you to hone in on what is your adventure? What's the thing that you essentially see yourself going out and conquering that beast? whatever it is, maybe it's a career pivot, maybe it's going to a different company, maybe it's a new job or promotion. There is some kind of mission or adventure that you are going out after, and as you go out to do that or you've already done that I want you to think about. You know what are the obstacles, challenges or hurdles that were in your way. Capture all of them, write it down Because, see, part of the adventure is it's ugly. In my story it's a lot about rejection and disappointment. It's about being told quote unquote you kind of have the job, but I don't have the money to pay you, and having to go back and prove yourself all over again. 

In your hero's journey, who supports you? Who's your rock? Maybe it's your spouse, your children, a parent, a colleague. Maybe it's somebody you've never met but you are so empowered by their story. What is it that makes them a badass that you really appreciate? You know, that's the word I think of when I think of Taylor Swift. I'm not a huge Taylor Swift fan, but, man, is she a badass Reclaiming her catalog and going up against the music industry like mm? don't want to mess with her. 

When you think about your hero's journey, where are you being tested? Dig into that. Where do you feel like you are being challenged? or, better yet, who is not believing in you? Who has their doubts about you and your ability to do the work you believe you are called to do? that you are going to prove them wrong In your hero's journey as you navigate through the adventure and then the return home. So we are bridging steps two and three, if you will. This is where I want you to showcase your personal growth and transformation. Here is where you go into detail about the ultimate conflict or challenge And you share with us and you let us in. What is the resolution or return? I want to offer you that your hero's journey needs to be as long as it needs to be. This is why it is so important to journal or capture this in a Google Doc somewhere, or open up your laptop and use the voice dictation and talk into it and let it just transcribe it. You can go back and clean it up later. It is only for you at this point, but I want you to keep refining. 

How do you tell your story? When I work with my clients on telling their story from a place of value and service, it is deeply rooted in how your experiences are relevant to their particular job, organization or workplace challenges that you are going to help them. Your hero's journey is so motivating and inspiring to them because they know you're going to be able to help them. You have to own your story. You have to be able to communicate it better than anybody. This is part of the challenge for heart-centered leaders and professionals where they don't want to brag, they don't want to boast, they don't want to ruffle feathers. It is your story, own it. Own it like there is no tomorrow and tell it better than anybody. 

When you know all the details of your hero's journey, you can extract the information you need to answer any interview question, handle any networking conversation and in those moments when you are starting to fill up with a little self-doubt or reservation, i've got a great interview coming up in a few weeks on the regular side of the podcast about going from self-doubt to self-mastery. I've got a guest that really walks us through some wonderful things there. We're human beings. We have a tendency to doubt ourselves. That's going to happen When you know your hero's journey that self-doubt turns into greater confidence and confidence that you can communicate. My friends, what I want to finally offer you is this Take some time this month and write out your hero's journey. Write it out for you. Look for the things that make a compelling story that you can leverage and share with anybody who asks, especially if it's during a networking conversation or interview. 

If you're ever looking for some help on how to build your hero's journey, that's where coaching can absolutely help. If you're ready to start coaching with me or you're interested in coaching with me, then email me at john at johnnarallcom, or direct message me on LinkedIn specifically. I'll share my calendar with you and we'll set up a call just to start the conversation and see where it goes. A lot of times I have conversations with people and they're curious about what coaching is. It's a great opportunity for you to do that. 

I appreciate you supporting the mid-career GPS Podcast Plus. I certainly appreciate you following along with the podcast. I hope to have some pretty exciting news for you next month about some changes to the podcast that I am playing with and dealing with. We're still going to focus on mid-career, but I'll share more about that with you next month. You'll hear that coming along. But in the meantime, my friends, your hero's journey needs to be told and it needs to be shared. It is absolutely a part of you building your mid-career GPS. You will build that mid-career GPS one mile or one step at a time. In your hero's journey you figured out how you want to show up and how you show up matters. Until next month, i wish you a great rest of the day, stay safe, be well. I'll talk to you more next time, take care.